The Pride thread 🌈

[the phantom menace]

Yet you still needed help understanding why respect and tolerance can be harmful? I like to think you're just a dishonest troll but maybe you really are stupid?

Have you answered (rather than asserted) it yet? If so, it hasn't popped into my notifcations and I must have scrolled through it.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Oh but I do GG.

It is of couse mean (and unbecoming) of me to punch down and engage in "pick on the forum ****" from time to time, but I'm not a perfect human being or role model.

 

[the phantom menace]

but when Robert Smith was singing ‘Boys don’t cry’ he was exploring the vulnerable feminine side of men. There was no suggestion that there are 84 other genders at play.

True, and the discussion in the thread at the time was about the claim by the class **** that gender has no point without sexuality. Why was Robert Smith talking about feminine sides of masculinity in 1981 - because to exclusively equate gender with sexuality is misguided and false.

 

[Gary Gutful]

True, and the discussion in the thread at the time was about the claim by the class **** that gender has no point without sexuality. Why was Robert Smith talking about feminine sides of masculinity in 1981 - because to exclusively equate gender with sexuality is misguided and false.

I think you are misrespesenting his argument in the bolded bit.

 

[Gary Gutful]

 

[the phantom menace]

I think you are misrespesenting his argument in the bolded bit.

Maybe, but the forum regurgitator hasn't fully explained the questionable position.

Let's go back to his his original qupote on the matter then.

Without sexuality there is no purpose to gender. Literally zero.

Yeah, no. He's still missing that gender has a purpose apart from sexuality... because he seems to exclusively equate gender('s purpose) with sexuality.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Maybe, but the forum regurgitator hasn't fully explained the questionable position.

Let's go back to his his original qupote on the matter then.


Yeah, no. He's still missing that gender has a purpose apart from sexuality... because he seems to exclusively equate gender('s purpose) with sexuality.

Let me try and dumb it down for you.

Your sex ultimately determines your gender. If you are born a male you can be a butch male or a male with feminine traits. You can't suddenly become a female though.

If gender becomes a such a distorted social construct then societal norms such reasonably distinguishing between a male or a female become compromised. I don't really think thats a good outcome and it leads to a lot of problems imo.

For a start it devalues the role of women which I have a problem with given the efforts they have made in the last 50 years to narrow the equality gap. All on the basis of some non-scientific touchy feely abstract concept which confuses and further divides people.

If a female asks me to call them male (or vice versa) then out of politeness and respect I'll oblige, but common sense says its f**ken bullshit.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Three examples of the top of my head where I think it leads to problems.

1. Caitlynn Jenner winning "woman of the year" after being a woman for about 5 minutes. Really? Cant find a better woman in the world than some f**ken idiot that was born a man?

2. Trans men playing women's sports. Disgraceful and shouldnt be allowed. I feel sorry for women who have to put up with that shit.

3. Public bathrooms. If gender doesnt mean anything anymore does that mean any old f**ken pervy bloke who thinks he's a woman can use the ladies shitters? They are already vulnerable enough FFS. Why cant they have a safe space free from biological men?

Anyone supporting this gender nonsense is just a woman hater.

 

[the phantom menace]

Let me try and dumb it down for you.

Your sex ultimately determines your gender. If you are born a male you can be a butch male or a male with feminine traits. You can't suddenly become a female though.

If gender becomes a such a distorted social construct then societal norms such reasonably distinguishing between a male or a female become compromised. I don't really think thats a really good outcome and it leads to a lot of problems imo.

For a start it devalues the role of women which I have a problem with given the efforts they have made in the last 50 years to narrow the equality gap. All on the basis of some non-scientific touchy feely abstract concept which confuses and further divides people.

If a female asks me to call them male (or vice versa) then out of politeness and respect I'll oblige, but common sense says its f**ken bullshit.

So you're in agreement with whatever Pou's trying to argue in dismissing gender?

On what you've posted there, I think there's more to it than the first para - you're still coming at the gender conecept from a (too) heavy biological basis. Second para seems to get up some of yoru guys more than mine, not sure why (might be the evils of respect and tolerance that Pou hasn't yet elaborated)? Third para, there's some issues with the impact of trans recognition (particularly in sports), but I'm not sure these have wide impact. Fourth para my respect outweighs the need for any judgement of bullshit.

Bottom line - it's the Pride theread, and (apart from peopel who feel some personal need to argue the toss) there's absolutely nothing wrong with whatever anyone's experience of their gender is, nor whatever anyone's experience of sexual orientation.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think you are misrespesenting his argument in the bolded bit.

Exactly. Why can't males exhibit femininity without creating a whole new gender for it. Seems kind of toxic.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Maybe, but the forum regurgitator hasn't fully explained the questionable position.

Let's go back to his his original qupote on the matter then.


Yeah, no. He's still missing that gender has a purpose apart from sexuality...

Okay, so what is it then?

 

[the phantom menace]

Three examples of the top of my head where I think it leads to problems.

1. Caitlynn Jenner winning "woman of the year" after being a woman for about 5 minutes. Really? Cant find a better woman in the world than some f**ken idiot that was born a man?

2. Trans men playing women's sports. Disgraceful and shouldnt be allowed. I feel sorry for women who have to put up with that shit.

3. Public bathrooms. If gender doesnt mean anything anymore does that mean any old f**ken pervy bloke who thinks he's a woman can use the ladies shitters? They are already vulnerable enough FFS. Why cant they have a safe space free from biological men?

Anyone supporting this gender nonsense is just a woman hater.

1. Sure they could have found a biologically-born woman for the award. But maybe the award isn't about biology, so why shouldn't they consider someone who has travelled the journey of aligning their outward biological sex to their inner concept of gender. (Not a huge fan of Jenner, but don't think her winning the award was a big deal or problem.)

2. Agree with you there, a lot to still work out within the confines of the historical two-gendered model of sports in the modern world.

3. Loads of places I go, including kids playgrounds when mine were growing up, have unisex toilets. Also seen lots of unisex toilets in shopping centres. This in a sense promotes safety because everyone gets their own cubicle, and there's no excuse for loitering anywhere and claiming anything in terms of gender. I think the world's moving away from two-gendered division in these spaces, and there hasn't been much of an outcry.

 

[the phantom menace]

Exactly. Why can't males exhibit femininity without creating a whole new gender for it. Seems kind of toxic.

We can, and many do. Doesn't mean you need to swap gender, because it's not all about sex or sexual orientation...

 

[Poupou Escobar]

We can, and many do. Doesn't mean you need to swap gender, because it's not all about sex or sexual orientation...

So what is it about? What's the difference between a man and a woman, if they have the same sex organs?

 

[the phantom menace]

Okay, so what is it then?

The purpose of gender? f**k, go back and read the posts you've replied to and its all explained. It's alright - there'll be a celebration week for slow learners next week.

Bottom line - it's the Pride theread, and (apart from people who feel some personal need to argue the toss) there's absolutely nothing wrong with whatever anyone's experience of their gender is, nor whatever anyone's experience of sexual orientation.

 

[the phantom menace]

So what is it about? What's the difference between a man and a woman, if they have the same sex organs?

f**k sake. Sex organs equals biological. Gender equals cerebral.

Sometimes they are the same (cis), sometimes they don't align. Nothing to do with sexual orientation.

 

[Gary Gutful]

So you're in agreement with whatever Pou's trying to argue in dismissing gender?

I'm explaining his point because it was annoying me that you didn't understand it. Its a well made one imo.

On what you've posted there, I think there's more to it than the first para - you're still coming at the gender conecept from a (too) heavy biological basis.

If it's completely divorced from biological sex then its just a free for all. Are you happy to accept that its whatever someone else thinks it is or does the term actually have meaning to you, like all other words do?

Second para seems to get up some of yoru guys more than mine, not sure why (might be the evils of respect and tolerance that Pou hasn't yet elaborated)?

I've given you a few examples.

Third para, there's some issues with the impact of trans recognition (particularly in sports), but I'm not sure these have wide impact.

Think harder. To deny that there are broader ramifications is sheltered thinking. Is it the biggest issue in the world? No, but every decision comes with consequences.

Fourth para my respect outweighs the need for any judgement of bullshit.

If only you were consistent in your application of this philosophy.

 

[Gary Gutful]

The purpose of gender? f**k, go back and read the posts you've replied to and its all explained. It's alright - there'll be a celebration week for slow learners next week.

Bottom line - it's the Pride theread, and (apart from people who feel some personal need to argue the toss) there's absolutely nothing wrong with whatever anyone's experience of their gender is, nor whatever anyone's experience of sexual orientation.

So you cant actually define what gender means can you? Give me a definition.

 

[the phantom menace]

If it's completely divorced from biological sex then its just a free for all. Are you happy to accept that its whatever someone else thinks it is or does the term actually have meaning to you, like all other words do?

Yes, I'm happy to accept that. Here's soem meaning to the term if you or others are still searching for it: "Gender is part of a person's social and personal identity. It refers to each person's deeply felt internal and individual identity, and the way a person presents and is recognised within the community." (Source: https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-pr...ernment-guidelines-recognition-sex-and-gender)

I've given you a few examples.

After the original post and my reply, which I've also replied to.

Think harder. To deny that there are broader ramifications is sheltered thinking. Is it the biggest issue in the world? No, but every decision comes with consequences.

I'll agree your example 2 has consequences. But the others I think are cases of (dare I say it) moral panic?

If only you were consistent in your application of this philosophy.

Yeah, respecting accidental bigotry and its harms isn't really part of my philosophy.

Still waiting for people to tell me where those scary rainbow colours touched them... because it's pretty obvious over the decades where the lack of respect and tolerance around gender and sexual diversity touches people that might be experiencing or effected by that.

 

[the phantom menace]

So you cant actually define what gender means can you? Give me a definition.

f**k, give me a chance to type will you - look above.

It takes time to respond to people who have their blinkers firmly on...