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Tim Moltzen ... (war is over)

gypsy

Bench
Messages
4,248
dont see the point in financial compensation - its not like you can spend that in addition to the salary cap limit anyway..

We can put it towards a new grandstand? To replace the.......new grandstand? :sarcasm:
 

big pat

Coach
Messages
10,452
haha so now it's boring?

PS - if you are looking for the boredom to end don't hold your breath waiting for the cricket!


just like everyone i'm entitled to a opinion, if don't like it you can f**k off, and don't quote me again because you're a f**kwit, and i'll watch12 hours of cricket if i want, because i love the game.
 

Father Ted

First Grade
Messages
5,531
St George have arguments in their favor without you making up stories. The tigers put out a press release the day Tim signed saying he was nt released. And despite some inconsistent comments they never have released him.

It's not a dangerous precedent. Any contract dispute depends on it's own facts and it's own unique circumstances.

If all clubs have done business this way until now It is a dangerous precedent . For the Tigers especially because clubs will be extra cautious doing business with you i.e No trust and very little good will.
 

Firey_Dragon

Coach
Messages
12,099
St George have arguments in their favor without you making up stories. The tigers put out a press release the day Tim signed saying he was nt released. And despite some inconsistent comments they never have released him.

It's not a dangerous precedent. Any contract dispute depends on it's own facts and it's own unique circumstances.

Made up what exactly? The fact that Doust has come out and said since Humphreys made the announcement of Moltzen not having a release yet, Tauber communicated to the Dragons otherwise?

The fact that Humphreys has waited 3 months to now actually contest it?

The fact that Sheens and Benji both said Moltzen was "moving on" very publically in the media.

Humphreys said at the time of the announcement that he hadn't recieved a formal release but had permission to negotiate with other clubs. Moltzen since then signed a formal contract and indicated to the dragons a release had been granted.

There are no lies in what I said. Had the Tigers really wanted Moltzen at the time they could have communicated their intentions much earlier, but chose not to.

The Tigers clearly were happy to give a release, but circumstances changed and they're exploiting a loophole, nothing more, nothing less.
 
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TimmyB

Juniors
Messages
2,332
So now you're saying that we can loan Brown while Timmy gets his head together and then swap them back later on? This is the problem with bush lawyering... it often goes down a dusty track.

Your analogy sounds like you're putting the onus of liability on the person who has done nothing wrong.

At least you agree that Saints are not the offenders here.
I never said the factual situations were the same, it was your analogy. I was merely demonstrating the principle I was invoking in my first post. The facts aren't identical because it's an analogy.

There is an onus, an onus to mitigate losses. A defendant can't be held liable for losses a defendant has not taken care to mitigate. In the case of your analogy, a plaintiff couldn't claim their loss of profit when they could have easily avoided the majority of that loss by taking up an offer made to them by a defendant. I see some parallels with the Tigers offering Brown, depending on how you characterise the loss. It was admittedly rash to state it as unequivocally as I did.

I don't actually care about the compo. To me it's more about doing the right thing. If you agree to something then you should do your best to follow through. I'm more curious about the desperate measures some WT supporters are going to in trying to wriggle their way out of any moral responsibility. The legal mumbo-jumbo, semantics and splitting hairs down to the finest slither is just bullshit people do to get out of doing the right thing.
Honestly, the legal mumbo-jumbo is very interesting to me. I take your point though.

Clearly Moltzen or Tauber, or both have done the wrong thing and have earned the ire of Dragons' fans. I'm not so sure that is true of Humphreys. He has stated several times that he has a different view of events to Doust. I don't think there is concrete evidence that Humphreys viewed Moltzen as released when the signing occurred. Sure it's still not amazing behavior but it's not exactly a first either - Lewis & the Rabbitohs, Turner & the Titans spring to mind. These were even worse in that there was no subsisting contract.

lol. I figured that much. Well good luck with that. Perhaps real estate law is more your style.
That actually has lots of contract law...
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,289
I never said the factual situations were the same, it was your analogy. I was merely demonstrating the principle I was invoking in my first post. The facts aren't identical because it's an analogy.

There is an onus, an onus to mitigate losses. A defendant can't be held liable for losses a defendant has not taken care to mitigate. In the case of your analogy, a plaintiff couldn't claim their loss of profit when they could have easily avoided the majority of that loss by taking up an offer made to them by a defendant. I see some parallels with the Tigers offering Brown, depending on how you characterise the loss. It was admittedly rash to state it as unequivocally as I did.


Honestly, the legal mumbo-jumbo is very interesting to me. I take your point though.

Clearly Moltzen or Tauber, or both have done the wrong thing and have earned the ire of Dragons' fans. I'm not so sure that is true of Humphreys. He has stated several times that he has a different view of events to Doust. I don't think there is concrete evidence that Humphreys viewed Moltzen as released when the signing occurred. Sure it's still not amazing behavior but it's not exactly a first either - Lewis & the Rabbitohs, Turner & the Titans spring to mind. These were even worse in that there was no subsisting contract.
Ah, so it's the vibe of the thing.
TimmyB said:
That actually has lots of contract law...
You mean like what this guy did?

mora.1.jpg
 

andrew9148

Juniors
Messages
514
If all clubs have done business this way until now It is a dangerous precedent . For the Tigers especially because clubs will be extra cautious doing business with you i.e No trust and very little good will.

May be being cautious with tigers. But I think most clubs will be reluctant to male
Tim mol too many offers.
 

andrew9148

Juniors
Messages
514
His manager has stated several times that a verbal release was given. Otherwise he would be in a lot of trouble for allowing his client to sign a contract with another club. Verbal will hold up. The delay here is about appeasing us in return for tearing up his deal. Wont be easy.

Ultimately st George are the ones who have to register the contract. Maybe they relied on assurances of the manager re the tigers release. But the tigers are the ones who release the player. They should have asked the tigers .

Why would the manager be in trouble for allowing to
To sign ?

Do you think st George would be in trouble for signing a player who wad under contract when they had made no attempt to clarify directly with the tigers that a formal release would be coming ?
 

andrew9148

Juniors
Messages
514
Made up what exactly? The fact that Doust has come out and said since Humphreys made the announcement of Moltzen not having a release yet, Tauber communicated to the Dragons otherwise?

The fact that Humphreys has waited 3 months to now actually contest it?

The fact that Sheens and Benji both said Moltzen was "moving on" very publically in the media.

Humphreys said at the time of the announcement that he hadn't recieved a formal release but had permission to negotiate with other clubs. Moltzen since then signed a formal contract and indicated to the dragons a release had been granted.

There are no lies in what I said. Had the Tigers really wanted Moltzen at the time they could have communicated their intentions much earlier, but chose not to.

The Tigers clearly were happy to give a release, but circumstances changed and they're exploiting a loophole, nothing more, nothing less.

You said the contract was first contested three months after it was signed. The tigers said at the time it was announced they had nt released Tim
 

andrew9148

Juniors
Messages
514
The release is for the tigers to give. Everyone knows that. If saints chose to rely on other people to tell them about what the tigers might be doing is perhaps not the best way to carry on business.
 

andrew9148

Juniors
Messages
514
Then it brings us back to the old question . Why tell him to look elseware?

Making it public they were happy for him to talk around to other clubs does not mean that the tigers have formally released him. St George just assumed it would happen. Maybe because tim and manager told them but still they could have picked up phone and asked tigers . They sort of did ask the tigers when they announced signing and tigers said no release
 

Father Ted

First Grade
Messages
5,531
The two lots of supporters have argued the same points for days. Keep the pea hearted little twat I'm over it. If he comes to us I don't want him to ever own a red vee. I do want Doust to keep fighting just to prove we are no one's door mat.

As I said before The Tigers are the toilet Moltzen is the chain and we all know what their full off
 
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