Timana Tahu out, Joel Monaghan in for State of Origin II

[Stagger eel]

No he's not. Joey calls Inglis a bl**k c*** and then is surprised at an indigenous person's reaction...

Then says to the press that he's "shocked" and that he's "not a racist."

I think the reason he was shocked was that he realized that he actually was a racist.

Seriously if you don't get it in 2010 then you never really will.

uuummm!! this is what I'm questioning Bartman over...

NSW has been gutless here, the old boys gang has tried to protect f**k-up Joey, and now I hope we get smashed to smithereens on Wednesday in Tahu's absence.

I'm as pissed as anyone over the incident but I sure as hell won't be supporting Queensland over the situation.

 

[Stagger eel]

No, if I (and people in many other roles) made a comment like that in my work, I'd rightly be sacked on the spot (with recourse to appeal etc, but sacked immediately nonetheless).

supporting Queensland Bart..supporting Queensland :crazy:

 

[lingard]

That's because being called a white so-and-so is no big deal.

I mean, who really cares? Even Andrew Johns called himself White Trash which is something plenty of white people throw around - I doubt many people find it offensive.

But plenty of black people - especially kids - are ashamed of it, and throwing 'black merkin' around doesn't help them.

Of course, a lot of left-wing hand wringers (most of them white) are trying to make white people ashamed of their race, and they're enthusiastically helped along by racist idiots like Anthony Mundine.

In a perfect world people would be proud or ashamed based only on their own achievements, and for the people who feel safe, secure and prosperous this is generally the case. That's why most white people don't care about racial slurs directed against them.

But as people become more scared, uncertain and insecure (for example, poor people who live in hostile environments) they seek refuge in the group - generally people who look like them and talk like them - and that usually means race.

So since aboriginals are generally subject to the constant threats of violence and poverty and hopelessness, they are more likely to identify strongly with their ethnic group, making racist slurs like 'black merkin' that much more hurtful.

In the same way, it's usually the poorest white people who go on about white pride and sh*t like that - the uncertainty in their lives makes them identify more strongly with their race, and so they're more sensitive to things like being called a 'Captain Cook merkin' and so on.

And the fact that aboriginal people were generally treated (by white people and the white government) as sub-humans. They were only allowed to vote in the mid-sixties, for f**k sake. Before that they were not even considered to be worthy of having a say in this country. That`s not very long ago. And they had their children taken away from them (or they were taken away from their parents) or their parents suffered this. Once again, very recent history. And they have all the scars from that.
My father was a school headmaster. His father was a manager in the coal-mining industry. What the hell do I care if someone calls me a white merkin? I`ve got all that safe, secure heritage to fall back on. But you go back two generations of aboriginal people and what have they got? Unemployed, disenfranchised, unempowered. Great-grandfathers murdered by whites; maybe grandfathers and grandmothers. Making up only 1 or 2% of the population. Really in the minority. No power. No voice in society. Fathers and mothers and grandparents not teachers or doctors or postal workers or even clerks or factory workers; but more likely unemployed, no confidence, no power, ashamed of their station in life. Call someone like that a 'black merkin' and it means a whole lot more than anything they could call a white man.

 

[Haynzy]

And the fact that aboriginal people were generally treated (by white people and the white government) as sub-humans. They were only allowed to vote in the mid-sixties, for f**k sake. Before that they were not even considered to be worthy of having a say in this country. That`s not very long ago. And they had their children taken away from them (or they were taken away from their parents) or their parents suffered this. Once again, very recent history. And they have all the scars from that.
My father was a school headmaster. His father was a manager in the coal-mining industry. What the hell do I care if someone calls me a white merkin? I`ve got all that safe, secure heritage to fall back on. But you go back two generations of aboriginal people and what have they got? Unemployed, disenfranchised, unempowered. Great-grandfathers murdered by whites; maybe grandfathers and grandmothers. Making up only 1 or 2% of the population. Really in the minority. No power. No voice in society. Fathers and mothers and grandparents not teachers or doctors or postal workers or even clerks or factory workers; but more likely unemployed, no confidence, no power, ashamed of their station in life. Call someone like that a 'black merkin' and it means a whole lot more than anything they could call a white man.

 

[lingard]

:nwave: kermet the frog here .... what of mundine's has come true? because joey johns has opened his dumb mouth AGAIN! and been an idiot, that means that indigenous players never get picked for NSW or Australia??? wtf? I guess Tahu being there was a mirage - its all in our imaginations

:roll: ... pleeeease - mundine's biggest problem in life is that he opens his mouth - he is an idiot

No. But considering the small number of aboriginals who have played for NSW as compared to the number who have played for Queensland and Australia, and as compared to the number who play in the NRL as a whole, then maybe we might look at Mundine`s comments in a new light and think that there might be an element of truth in what he says. (i.e: that the NSW establishment possibly discriminates against aboriginal players.)

 

[lingard]

What an unbelievable beat up this all is!!

I remember years ago Michael O'Connor making some ridiculous, mindless comment that was somewhat demeaning to Aboriginies, just before an Origin. A little bit of it was discussed in the media but Mal Meninga sorted out by bashing O'Connor for 80 minutes on the footy field.

Sure Johns is mindless, halfbreed Cessnock trailer trash. But Tahu surely could've handled it better. One week the blues jersey means more than a wallaby jersey, the next week he throws it away because of the comments of an imbacile. Timana Tahu or Timana Boo hoo?

And what about the moral high ground being taken by the pathetic multi posters who constantly feel the need to deytroy every post by making a half dozen comments every page where they essentially say the same thing? VERY BORING!!! get a life and give other people a go!!

So yeah bring it on losers (I know the multi posters won't resist). I won't respond though because a heated argument in cyberspace is one usually undertaken by cowards who wouldn't dare make such comments in the open.

Well, Barney; it`s not exactly a heated agument. And you can be a multi-poster too, if you want.

 

[Joely01]

No he's not. Joey calls Inglis a bl**k c*** and then is surprised at an indigenous person's reaction...

Then says to the press that he's "shocked" and that he's "not a racist."

I think the reason he was shocked was that he realized that he actually was a racist.

Seriously if you don't get it in 2010 then you never really will.

Pull your head in a bit mate, im going to support Joey for a sec, Every single person on here cant say they havent said or done something they have regret before....? now Joey was trying to fire the boys up something that we were all complaining about in game 1 saying how NSW were playing with no heart and didnt take pride in the jersey, now Joey (yes he said something which was out of line) but we just trying to fire us up, he never ever would of meant to cause his great mate and Inglis hurt, and when i saw him in the interview last night he was gutted. Before every starts saying s**t like Joeys a racist etc take a second to think wait ive done similar things before. He made a mistake and apologised for it. Now fire the F**k up NSW and show some heart in game 2

 

[strider]

No. But considering the small number of aboriginals who have played for NSW as compared to the number who have played for Queensland and Australia, and as compared to the number who play in the NRL as a whole, then maybe we might look at Mundine`s comments in a new light and think that there might be an element of truth in what he says. (i.e: that the NSW establishment possibly discriminates against aboriginal players.)

oh bullsh*t ..... maybe queensland just has better indigenous players than NSW .... mundine just had the sh*ts he wasn't a regular - couldn't hack that guys like Daly, Fittler etc got picked before him - and those quys are probably absolute legends of NSW league .... its utter bullsh*t to believe there's been some long running racist undercurrent to the selection of NSW teams - and personally i think anyone who believes that sh*t is stupid

 

[Maroubra Eel]

No. But considering the small number of aboriginals who have played for NSW as compared to the number who have played for Queensland and Australia, and as compared to the number who play in the NRL as a whole, then maybe we might look at Mundine`s comments in a new light and think that there might be an element of truth in what he says. (i.e: that the NSW establishment possibly discriminates against aboriginal players.)

Do you think the nsw selectors are racist? I would be surprised if they are. I know that I don't even think about what race all the players are. They are all just blue and gold and then the rest to me.

 

[lingard]

Pull your head in a bit mate, im going to support Joey for a sec, Every single person on here cant say they havent said or done something they have regret before....? now Joey was trying to fire the boys up something that we were all complaining about in game 1 saying how NSW were playing with no heart and didnt take pride in the jersey, now Joey (yes he said something which was out of line) but we just trying to fire us up, he never ever would of meant to cause his great mate and Inglis hurt, and when i saw him in the interview last night he was gutted. Before every starts saying s**t like Joeys a racist etc take a second to think wait ive done similar things before. He made a mistake and apologised for it. Now fire the F**k up NSW and show some heart in game 2

Yeah, look, you`ve got a point there. And I`m certainly not calling Johns a racist. I am calling him a goose, though. He was pissed apparently, and it`s not a good look for the assistant coach of a major sporting team. And, yes, when I was a kid there was a lot of prejudice against 'Mediterranean Descendants', and I joined in with that. I didn`t deep down feel any real prejudice against them, but I`m sure that some of my remarks would have hurt some kids at school very badly.
But I reckon the big thing to come out of all this is that we white people generally haven`t got a clue about racism, and we don`t realise how cutting these sorts of remarks can be. Johns said he hopes he can learn from this. Maybe we all can. It`s no good in 2010 to say "It was just an off the cuff remark and I didn`t mean anything by it." Our Prime Minister said 'Sorry' last year. I think it`s up to all of us to make that mean something. This issue is a whole lot bigger than Rugby League or supporting NSW or QLD or Parramatta. This is real life.

 

[Eelementary]

What an unbelievable beat up this all is!!

I remember years ago Michael O'Connor making some ridiculous, mindless comment that was somewhat demeaning to Aboriginies, just before an Origin. A little bit of it was discussed in the media but Mal Meninga sorted out by bashing O'Connor for 80 minutes on the footy field.

Sure Johns is mindless, halfbreed Cessnock trailer trash. But Tahu surely could've handled it better. One week the blues jersey means more than a wallaby jersey, the next week he throws it away because of the comments of an imbacile. Timana Tahu or Timana Boo hoo?

And what about the moral high ground being taken by the pathetic multi posters who constantly feel the need to deytroy every post by making a half dozen comments every page where they essentially say the same thing? VERY BORING!!! get a life and give other people a go!!

So yeah bring it on losers (I know the multi posters won't resist). I won't respond though because a heated argument in cyberspace is one usually undertaken by cowards who wouldn't dare make such comments in the open.

Lol @ the irony

 

[Eelementary]

Pull your head in a bit mate, im going to support Joey for a sec, Every single person on here cant say they havent said or done something they have regret before....? now Joey was trying to fire the boys up something that we were all complaining about in game 1 saying how NSW were playing with no heart and didnt take pride in the jersey, now Joey (yes he said something which was out of line) but we just trying to fire us up, he never ever would of meant to cause his great mate and Inglis hurt, and when i saw him in the interview last night he was gutted. Before every starts saying s**t like Joeys a racist etc take a second to think wait ive done similar things before. He made a mistake and apologised for it. Now fire the F**k up NSW and show some heart in game 2

How long have Joey and Tahu known each other?

Johns should have kept his mouth shut or found another way to say it without offending someone he claims is a really good mate of his.

And it's easy for people to claim Tahu is soft for reacting that way but: (1) how many of you are indigenous? and (2) how many of you are indigenous pro football players?

Until you meet both criteria can you really know what Timana felt? No.

How did this thread get to 24 pages, anyway?

 

[Joely01]

How long have Joey and Tahu known each other?

Johns should have kept his mouth shut or found another way to say it without offending someone he claims is a really good mate of his.

And it's easy for people to claim Tahu is soft for reacting that way but: (1) how many of you are indigenous? and (2) how many of you are indigenous pro football players?

Until you meet both criteria can you really know what Timana felt? No.

How did this thread get to 24 pages, anyway?

Not saying Tahu is soft well done for standing up to himself to someone he has a really good relationship with. All im saying is that its easy to pin Joey down right now and blame him for it, but really what has he done that we all havent done before? he made a mistake and hes sorry. Joey would not of tried to hurt Tahu and anyway, its a complete F**k up by him and he knows that. He could of went a different way about trying to fire the boys up but he didnt. Joey is a legend of this game and this shouldnt not affect that status. A few weeks ago Alfie was spotted stripping and had 1000 drinks under his belt but nothing is said about it 2 days after the event, If that is Joey its in the papers and he probably loses his channel 9 job. Its fair to say this is being taken alot more seriously due to the status of the person who said it...

 

[lingard]

Do you think the nsw selectors are racist? I would be surprised if they are. I know that I don't even think about what race all the players are. They are all just blue and gold and then the rest to me.

I`m not saying I think they are. I wouldn`t have a clue. I`m just saying that, as incredible and unbelievable as it might sound, that sort of sh*t still happens a lot in today`s society. Black people are still discriminated against a lot, and it`s at least possible that what Mundine says has an element of truth to it. It obviously wouldn`t be as overt as the selectors sitting around a table and saying "Okay, we won`t pick Nathan Merritt, because he`s black; we`ll pick Steve Turner instead". Or, no, we won`t pick Nathan Blacklock because he`s black (even though he`s the game`s top try-scorer, and we really need a try-scorer), we`ll pick a white boy instead." It would be far more subtle. There would be justification and rationalisation for their selections, and the words 'black' would never come into it. I`m just saying it`s possible that`s all. What, you think that 200 odd years of discrimination and prejudice just suddenly stops one day because we all woke up or something? Why do you think Nathan Blacklock went over to Rugby Union? Because his continual overlooking by the NSW selectors became like a bad joke. It probably made him wonder why. It made Mundine think that a black boy has to play ten times better than a white boy to get selected for NSW. I`m just saying there could be some truth in it.

 

[Suitman]

Not trying to be cool... I hope Johns is sacked from his role at Parra immediately by Osborne. As a club we shouldn't tolerate racism (made a good stance after Petero's complaint against our crowd back in the Denis days), so I'm hoping Osborne shows some leadership here...

NSW haven't shown any leadership, and it's harder for me to cheer them on (or feel positive toward the current team structure/admin) as a result. Racism just does that for me, may not have the same effect on everyone (and that's fair enough).

I think Osborne would be showing more leadership if he went down the mediation path. Have Johns, Tahu, and whoever else want's to be there from the club, make it clear that this nonsense is not tolerated by our club and get Tahu to open up and express his views.
We all need to learn from these types of episodes.
It would be far more beneficial for all involved than a straight out sacking.

Suity

 

[bartman]

supporting Queensland Bart..supporting Queensland :crazy:

nah, for this game i just see it as not supporting a racist regime. johns has gone a long way toward spoiling origin, just because he's a redneck bogan. i'll be cheering inglis to stick it up racist joey.

if tahu comes back in for game 3, without johns in the camp - the way it should have been last week, straight away the minute tahu raised his concern - then i'll feel ok about cheering on the blues again then.

 

[bartman]

I think Osborne would be showing more leadership if he went down the mediation path. Have Johns, Tahu, and whoever else want's to be there from the club, make it clear that this nonsense is not tolerated by our club and get Tahu to open up and express his views.
We all need to learn from these types of episodes.
It would be far more beneficial for all involved than a straight out sacking.

Suity

a valid opinion, i just happen to disagree. sack the merkin and he and others will learn plenty, and it's less likely to rear its head again.

 

[Eelementary]

Not saying Tahu is soft well done for standing up to himself to someone he has a really good relationship with. All im saying is that its easy to pin Joey down right now and blame him for it, but really what has he done that we all havent done before? he made a mistake and hes sorry. Joey would not of tried to hurt Tahu and anyway, its a complete F**k up by him and he knows that. He could of went a different way about trying to fire the boys up but he didnt. Joey is a legend of this game and this shouldnt not affect that status. A few weeks ago Alfie was spotted stripping and had 1000 drinks under his belt but nothing is said about it 2 days after the event, If that is Joey its in the papers and he probably loses his channel 9 job. Its fair to say this is being taken alot more seriously due to the status of the person who said it...

But that's the crux of it - how good can their relationship really be? Joey had to have known Timana doesn't take kindly to rude, ignorant, foul-mouthed racial slurs, and yet he did so anyway. We can come up with any excuse under the sun - he was caught in passion, he was high, he was drunk...Whatever. IMO if they were really that good friends, he NEVER should have said something like that.

And are you saying Allan Langer is less of a legend than Andrew Johns? Because, quite frankly, I would find that debatable...

 

[Suitman]

a valid opinion, i just happen to disagree. sack the merkin and he and others will learn plenty, and it's less likely to rear its head again.

Fair enough, if that's the way you feel. I'm as intolerable regarding racism as you are.
I just see that sacking him outright with no course of mediation is just sweeping it under the carpet in the same way as the regime you so detest has already done. In my opinion, that's not showing leadership at all.

Suity

 

[Joely01]

No saying that they are both on the same page but Joey says something and everyone jumps on his back, alfie can go and get plastered start stripping and nothing is said. It something that Joey has to do deal with being so high profile but please get off his back.... let Tahu, Joey and Inglis sort it out