Time for Moylan to 5/8

[Kilkenny]

It's the stats , they don't lie.


Moylan's kick return meters in 15 games for panthers - 390


Let's compare to some other FB's

Michael Gordon - 1006 in 20 games

Zillman - 528 in 9 games

Hopoate - 1089 in 18 games

Coote - 689 in 20 games

Wighton - 854 in 20 games



None of these guys are superstar fullbacks & they all put Moylan in the shade for kick return meters , and we haven't even touched on tackle breaks & line breaks.

Sorry to say but the "who can" argument doesn't pass the test.

 

[Kilkenny]

It's the stats , they don't lie.


Moylan's kick return meters in 15 games for panthers - 390


Let's compare to some other FB's

Michael Gordon - 1006 in 20 games

Zillman - 528 in 9 games

Hopoate - 1089 in 18 games

Coote - 689 in 20 games

Wighton - 854 in 20 games



None of these guys are superstar fullbacks & they all put Moylan in the shade for kick return meters , and we haven't even touched on tackle breaks & line breaks.

Sorry to say but the "who can" argument doesn't pass the test.

The stats you quote mean nothing.

There are so many variables involved in kick returns you simply cannot look at simple stats and derive a definitive on who is better than someone else.

All of the above were eligible for SOO and there is a reason Matt Moylan got selected in front of the above.

They are all good fullbacks, it is one of the most important positions for any team, it is part of the crucial 1,6,7 & 9 spine which is no often talked about.

At the end of the day what do you want!!!! We have one the best overall number ones in the game and because he doesn't bring the ball back at a thousand miles an hour you dismiss him as being inadequate because he doesn't make the same amount of metres gained as say Michael Gordon or Lachlan Coote. Are you serious!!!!

 

[Fibroman]

I want Darius Boyd. I love that scumbag grub.

 

[Pomoz]

Kilkenny did you read the discussion about Moylan in the "Surprising Stats", I think you are arguing with yourself. I disagree with you about the stats. Spread over 22 games and against different teams they do tell us he is a weak runner of the ball compared to others and he makes less kick returns than other fullbacks. DWZ makes more metres per run in kick returns than he does. Never mind the stats, our eyes tell us he is a weak and slow runner compared to most other fullbacks.

That said, the general consensus is that he is a great player and our wingers make up for his lack of ball running prowess. In terms of creativity he is only second to Barba, who is playing in a better more experienced team and should be able to create more. His defence is also ok and better than a lot of others. I haven't heard one person suggest he should be sacked. We always come down to "would he be a better 5/8th?". Others are better runners of the ball and we gain in that area and still keep his brilliant passing if he is 5/8th.

 

[Kilkenny]

Kilkenny did you read the discussion about Moylan in the "Surprising Stats", I think you are arguing with yourself. I disagree with you about the stats. Spread over 22 games and against different teams they do tell us he is a weak runner of the ball compared to others and he makes less kick returns than other fullbacks. DWZ makes more metres per run in kick returns than he does. Never mind the stats, our eyes tell us he is a weak and slow runner compared to most other fullbacks.

That said, the general consensus is that he is a great player and our wingers make up for his lack of ball running prowess. In terms of creativity he is only second to Barba, who is playing in a better more experienced team and should be able to create more. His defence is also ok and better than a lot of others. I haven't heard one person suggest he should be sacked. We always come down to "would he be a better 5/8th?". Others are better runners of the ball and we gain in that area and still keep his brilliant passing if he is 5/8th.

 

[Kilkenny]

Kilkenny did you read the discussion about Moylan in the "Surprising Stats", I think you are arguing with yourself. I disagree with you about the stats. Spread over 22 games and against different teams they do tell us he is a weak runner of the ball compared to others and he makes less kick returns than other fullbacks. DWZ makes more metres per run in kick returns than he does. Never mind the stats, our eyes tell us he is a weak and slow runner compared to most other fullbacks.

That said, the general consensus is that he is a great player and our wingers make up for his lack of ball running prowess. In terms of creativity he is only second to Barba, who is playing in a better more experienced team and should be able to create more. His defence is also ok and better than a lot of others. I haven't heard one person suggest he should be sacked. We always come down to "would he be a better 5/8th?". Others are better runners of the ball and we gain in that area and still keep his brilliant passing if he is 5/8th.

I understand the stats.

I understand the concept.

I simply do not understand the importance of whether you bring the ball back for 10 metres or 15 metres from your inside your 20 metre zone.

In the overall scheme of things, where the fullback brings the ball back from, most of the time, it is largely inconsequential and means nothing.

Matty is safe under the high ball for the most part, positions himself well to receive opposition kicks and does what is required. What more do we want!!

In the modern game the fullbacks collect the ball for the most part inside there own 20 metre zone. When they pick the ball up they are surrounded by the opposition defence in a straight line. They run the ball back and get tackled. That is the modern game.

There are very, very few opportunities for line breaks or big metres to be gained unless on the back of a poor kick chase or unusual situation.

 

[herbert henry1908]

The stats you quote mean nothing.

There are so many variables involved in kick returns you simply cannot look at simple stats and derive a definitive on who is better than someone else.

All of the above were eligible for SOO and there is a reason Matt Moylan got selected in front of the above.

They are all good fullbacks, it is one of the most important positions for any team, it is part of the crucial 1,6,7 & 9 spine which is no often talked about.

At the end of the day what do you want!!!! We have one the best overall number ones in the game and because he doesn't bring the ball back at a thousand miles an hour you dismiss him as being inadequate because he doesn't make the same amount of metres gained as say Michael Gordon or Lachlan Coote. Are you serious!!!!

Oh come on , they don't meant nothing. You're being hyperbolic.

It clearly paints a picture of a poor kick returner , arguably a fullbacks most important role.

Yes it doesn't tell the whole story but it's clear he's one of the worst kick returners amongst fullbacks , I can't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

He got selected for state of origin because of NSW's desperate need for attacking options , it wasn't because of his excellent fullback play and you know it. We know NSW values his passing game , hence his move to 5/8.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Kilkenny did you read the discussion about Moylan in the "Surprising Stats", I think you are arguing with yourself. I disagree with you about the stats. Spread over 22 games and against different teams they do tell us he is a weak runner of the ball compared to others and he makes less kick returns than other fullbacks. DWZ makes more metres per run in kick returns than he does. Never mind the stats, our eyes tell us he is a weak and slow runner compared to most other fullbacks.

That said, the general consensus is that he is a great player and our wingers make up for his lack of ball running prowess. In terms of creativity he is only second to Barba, who is playing in a better more experienced team and should be able to create more. His defence is also ok and better than a lot of others. I haven't heard one person suggest he should be sacked. We always come down to "would he be a better 5/8th?". Others are better runners of the ball and we gain in that area and still keep his brilliant passing if he is 5/8th.

Well said.

Matt Moylan is a great footy player , he just happens to be playing the wrong position.

Critiquing his fullback play the way I have doesn't mean I don't rate the guy , he's a huge asset to the team.

 

[Pomoz]

You know Kilkenny, your point is valid that it doesn't matter because as it it happens, Mansour and DWZ make plenty of metres so our sets start well. That is really the only issue. If you start a little further back for your sets does it stop you getting good field position? It can do, it just so happens our forwards and two wingers make sure that it doesn't.

 

[Fibroman]

I think the fact that Moylan gives the ball to his wingers to return shows that he is a smart footballer. He knows they will more than likely make more metres than him and he can come in with a scoot out of dummy half on the 2nd or 3rd play coming out of their own end. I still think 5/8th is his best position for his long term career.

 

[Kilkenny]

Oh come on , they don't meant nothing. You're being hyperbolic.

I must be honest I had to google hyperbolic as I didn't know what it meant.

So much has been written and said about Matt Moylan on this forum I just don't see his ability, or lack of it, on kick returns as a major issue for us.

There are many variables involved in kick return's which I don't need to go into.

Having said that you need to realise there are specific training drills the club has in place to cover kick returns and these training drills are put into play during games.

In respect of the normal run of the mill kick return where Moylan collects the ball inside his own twenty his return involves running to the area of least resistance and bring either DWZ or Josh Mansour into the next play. Ideally, someone is able to get into dummy half, feed the ball to the winger who is responsible for getting too or beyond the advantage line. If no dummy half available the DWZ or Josh Mansour simply cart the ball up field from dummy half. The key to this drill is a quick play the ball to allow DWZ or Josh Mansour to gain easy metres on the back of the defensive having to retreat the 10 metres quickly. There are many other kick return drills practised at training depending on the nature of the kick, field position etc etc.

As I say when Matt Moylan brings the ball back it is for the most part of ensure DWZ or Josh Mansour are well position to get us going forward on tackle two.

 

[Fibroman]

From the past to the present.
From the old leagues club in Station Street and the chocolate soldier era.
From Terry Wickey thru to Preston Campbell.
The memories of seasons gone by make winning today all the more special

Kilkenny, you need to revamp this buddy.

 

[chrisD]

If it were up to me,
1. Hiku/Edwards (unless Hardaker shows something, but he'd need a real chance for that and we don't have the time now, or I'd send feelers out to Lolohea)
6.Moylan
8. Merrin
13. Cartwright

And I have no room for TMM in the side with Cleary and Moylan in the halves and Peach being a more valuable bench utility. Unless TMM can replace Wallace as a permanent hooker.

But that's all next year, no time now to move Moylan this season.

 

[Fibroman]

If it were up to me,
1. Hiku/Edwards (unless Hardaker shows something, but he'd need a real chance for that and we don't have the time now, or I'd send feelers out to Lolohea)
6.Moylan
8. Merrin
13. Cartwright

And I have no room for TMM in the side with Cleary and Moylan in the halves and Peach being a more valuable bench utility. Unless TMM can replace Wallace as a permanent hooker.

But that's all next year, no time now to move Moylan this season.

What about Peachy starting in the centres and TMM on the bench?

 

[Kilkenny]

If it were up to me,
1. Hiku/Edwards (unless Hardaker shows something, but he'd need a real chance for that and we don't have the time now, or I'd send feelers out to Lolohea)
6.Moylan
8. Merrin
13. Cartwright

And I have no room for TMM in the side with Cleary and Moylan in the halves and Peach being a more valuable bench utility. Unless TMM can replace Wallace as a permanent hooker.

But that's all next year, no time now to move Moylan this season.

Dylan Edwards not dissimilar in style and stature to Matt Moylan. Moylan has been criticised here on this forum for his supposed lack of kick return metres and Edwards while quicker is very similar in that he is not going gain any more metres returning kicks than Moylan.

 

[Pomoz]

Dylan Edwards not dissimilar in style and stature to Matt Moylan. Moylan has been criticised here on this forum for his supposed lack of kick return metres and Edwards while quicker is very similar in that he is not going gain any more metres returning kicks than Moylan.

Only time will tell, but the extra speed makes a difference to evasiveness and ground coverage. Tedesco ain't making more metres because he is built like Mal Meninga, but his speed makes him slipperier than Steven Dank's alibi.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Dylan Edwards not dissimilar in style and stature to Matt Moylan. Moylan has been criticised here on this forum for his supposed lack of kick return metres and Edwards while quicker is very similar in that he is not going gain any more metres returning kicks than Moylan.

If he's quicker he should make more meters by default , the issue with Moylan isn't just his size it's his pace.

 

[Kilkenny]

If he's quicker he should make more meters by default , the issue with Moylan isn't just his size it's his pace.

If Dylan Edwards ever get's a number 1 jumper in our NRL side he would be trained to what Moylan is trained to do. Look up, assess, identify the the best option to position either Dallin or Mansour for the next hit up. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[herbert henry1908]

If Dylan Edwards ever get's a number 1 jumper in our NRL side he would be trained to what Moylan is trained to do. Look up, assess, identify the the best option to position either Dallin or Mansour for the next hit up. Nothing more nothing less.

Fair enough but raw pace is still going to get him more meters , even if he passes as much as Moylan he's simply going to advance the ball further when he runs , pace also will see him with more opportunities to beat defenders.

 

[mxlegend99]

Edwards is still a kid and is the same weight as Moylan only slightly shorter. He will fill out a bit. Throw in extra pace and he should be able to make more metres after contact, bust more tackles and be more effective at kick returns.

Moylan isnt strong/powerful enough. I dont think an extra 10kg would change that too much. It's just not the type of player he is. He tried to run it back hard around and after Origin. He just wasnt effective at it.