Time for Moylan to 5/8

[Pomoz]

This constant slagging off of Cartwright is becoming ridiculous. If you compare him to Milford, Morgan and Maloney his stats speak for themselves. He has more offloads, more tackles and a far superior missed tackle percentage than all of them.

Tackle breaks, the best is Milford at 80, second is Cartwright at 51.

Line breaks, best is Milford at 12 second is Cartwright at 9.

Metres run first is Milford at 2687 and second is Cartwright at 2643.

Tries, Milford 12, Morgan 8, Cartwright 7.

Try assists, Milford 16, Morgan 15, Cartwright 9, Maloney 8.

Offloads, Cartwright 69, second Milford 24.

Tackles per game, Cartwright 26.87, second Morgan 17.17.

Errors per game, Cartwright 1.2, Milford 1.1 per game, Maloney 0.6, Morgan 1.3.

Lets talk about experience. Milford 92 games, Morgan 97 games, Maloney 177 games, Cartwright 51 games.

So lets just get this straight. You spend your time slagging off a player who is in our team, a local junior with Penrith in his blood and you make comments with no actual analysis to back it up. He has played less than a season in a role as 5/8th and has only played 51 games in total, most of them in the back row. He currently out performs the NSW 5/8th elect in every aspect of the game except errors. He makes less errors than established superstar Morgan who plays in a team 50% better than ours and has 0.1 more errors her game than Milford who also plays in a better team than ours and has more experience as a 5/8th. He contributes more in defence than any of the other players by a margin that is double most of them. He has made 3 times more tackles than Maloney. Give or take 20m, he makes as much yardage as the best 5/8th Milford and he hasn't done his by using blistering speed and footwork, he has made most of his metres getting belted by three in a tackle.

Your constant criticism of a player who plays his heart out for the team, is a rookie 5/8th, barely with two seasons under his belt and playing in a team with the youngest average age in the NRL and you just can't stop running him down.

Frankly, you have lost all sense of perspective and should be ashamed of yourselves. Penrith fans? Really?

 

[betcats]

This constant slagging off of Cartwright is becoming ridiculous. If you compare him to Milford, Morgan and Maloney his stats speak for themselves. He has more offloads, more tackles and a far superior missed tackle percentage than all of them.

Tackle breaks, the best is Milford at 80, second is Cartwright at 51.

Line breaks, best is Milford at 12 second is Cartwright at 9.

Metres run first is Milford at 2687 and second is Cartwright at 2643.

Tries, Milford 12, Morgan 8, Cartwright 7.

Try assists, Milford 16, Morgan 15, Cartwright 9, Maloney 8.

Offloads, Cartwright 69, second Milford 24.

Tackles per game, Cartwright 26.87, second Morgan 17.17.

Errors per game, Cartwright 1.2, Milford 1.1 per game, Maloney 0.6, Morgan 1.3.

Lets talk about experience. Milford 92 games, Morgan 97 games, Maloney 177 games, Cartwright 51 games.

So lets just get this straight. You spend your time slagging off a player who is in our team, a local junior with Penrith in his blood and you make comments with no actual analysis to back it up. He has played less than a season in a role as 5/8th and has only played 51 games in total, most of them in the back row. He currently out performs the NSW 5/8th elect in every aspect of the game except errors. He makes less errors than established superstar Morgan who plays in a team 50% better than ours and has 0.1 more errors her game than Milford who also plays in a better team than ours and has more experience as a 5/8th. He contributes more in defence than any of the other players by a margin that is double most of them. He has made 3 times more tackles than Maloney. Give or take 20m, he makes as much yardage as the best 5/8th Milford and he hasn't done his by using blistering speed and footwork, he has made most of his metres getting belted by three in a tackle.

Your constant criticism of a player who plays his heart out for the team, is a rookie 5/8th, barely with two seasons under his belt and playing in a team with the youngest average age in the NRL and you just can't stop running him down.

Frankly, you have lost all sense of perspective and should be ashamed of yourselves. Penrith fans? Really?

This is just getting sad now, ive got a different opinion so that means im slagging him off and should be ashamed lol get f**ked mate.

 

[chrisD]

Moylan is doing most of that for him. Its pointless to put that on him Moylan is better at it and it just adds pressure to carty which quite often he doesn't respond well too.

You're really not redeemable. Before Sunday in the games Cartwright and Moylan played 6 and 1 they both had the same combined number of tries/try assists, or there was 1 the difference, and Cartwright had less errors. And they were the two best attacking players in the team in that time by that stat. AND, Moylan gets the ball over Cartwright when he calls it, and he touches the ball a f**kload more, like 50% more.

So what exactly are you hoping happens when Moylan goes to 6? That fifteen or so of those 20-30 touches Cartwright gets, which are so productive, get added to Moylan's 50 to 80 touches?

What you're seeing isn't actually happening, your solution is to a f**king imaginary problem, and your solution wouldn't actually achieve what you're thinking.

 

[Pomoz]

This is just getting sad now, ive got a different opinion so that means im slagging him off and should be ashamed lol get f**ked mate.

Fair enough, it is unfair to say somebody isn't a fan because they criticise the team and I retract that. Support can't be a "love in" because it won't have any passion and fervour, which is what makes being a supporter such great fun.

I can handle differing opinions, but you don't offer any meaningful analysis. It's just your opinion and when people offer facts and analysis, your answer usually is the stats mean nothing.

But it seems like you have it in for Cartwright and I don't understand why. He is one of us, not some blow in on a massive contract just picking up dollars before moving on. He doesn't deserve what you are saying, you have nothing to support what you say except "it's my opinion". You are entitled to your opinion and mine is that the criticism is personal and you seem to have a problem with him.

 

[PenrithPanther45]

Moylan has 7 assists his last four games or something, also playing 5/8th.

yeah nah i know, moylan is better just saying cartwright is doing fine

 

[betcats]

You're really not redeemable. Before Sunday in the games Cartwright and Moylan played 6 and 1 they both had the same combined number of tries/try assists, or there was 1 the difference, and Cartwright had less errors. And they were the two best attacking players in the team in that time by that stat. AND, Moylan gets the ball over Cartwright when he calls it, and he touches the ball a f**kload more, like 50% more.

So what exactly are you hoping happens when Moylan goes to 6? That fifteen or so of those 20-30 touches Cartwright gets, which are so productive, get added to Moylan's 50 to 80 touches?

What you're seeing isn't actually happening, your solution is to a f**king imaginary problem, and your solution wouldn't actually achieve what you're thinking.

Ive said this a thousand times and some of it does agree with what you are saying, you are just to stupid to realise it and get bogged down in one or two statements.

Moylan going to 6 wont change the way he attacks very much because he is already attacking as a 6. It does take the pressure of playing FB off him and allows him to fully focus on running the team with Cleary. For Cartwright it simply takes the pressure of having to create when theres nothing on which is when he does something really dumb. It simplifies things for him and allows to focus on his strengths instead of learning to play in the halves alongside Cleary and Moylan when he has no future there anyway. He can still do all his brilliant things playing in the backrow and combine with Moylan. We would also have a much better idea about the Moylan/TMM situation as well as the FB situation if we had of just moved Moylan.

 

[betcats]

Fair enough, it is unfair to say somebody isn't a fan because they criticise the team and I retract that. Support can't be a "love in" because it won't have any passion and fervour, which is what makes being a supporter such great fun.

I can handle differing opinions, but you don't offer any meaningful analysis. It's just your opinion and when people offer facts and analysis, your answer usually is the stats mean nothing.

But it seems like you have it in for Cartwright and I don't understand why. He is one of us, not some blow in on a massive contract just picking up dollars before moving on. He doesn't deserve what you are saying, you have nothing to support what you say except "it's my opinion". You are entitled to your opinion and mine is that the criticism is personal and you seem to have a problem with him.

Let me put it this way. Carty is fantastic he will be an out and out superstar in almost any position including the halves. That doesn't mean he should play every position though. His stats are great but he is barely playing like a half now Moylan is doing the majority of it for him. He looks so much better when he focuses on running the ball and letting his ball playing and offloads come off the back of that, there are times recently he looks unstoppable and then the same game he will look completely lost kicking on 3rd tackle or throwing around the back one handed passes. The line and tackle break numbers show how good he is at running the ball and his creativeness should come off the back of that.

If Cartwright had to take on the full responsibility of playing in the halves I seriously doubt his numbers would be as good but that is completely up for debate so obviously you will disagree.

 

[GongPanther]

Cartwright was instrumental in setting the stage for the second try V the Tits.

He might of lost a bit of possession,but he tried very hard all night to make up for those errors.

 

[chrisD]

Ive said this a thousand times and some of it does agree with what you are saying, you are just to stupid to realise it and get bogged down in one or two statements.

Moylan going to 6 wont change the way he attacks very much because he is already attacking as a 6. It does take the pressure of playing FB off him and allows him to fully focus on running the team with Cleary. For Cartwright it simply takes the pressure of having to create when theres nothing on which is when he does something really dumb. It simplifies things for him and allows to focus on his strengths instead of learning to play in the halves alongside Cleary and Moylan when he has no future there anyway. He can still do all his brilliant things playing in the backrow and combine with Moylan. We would also have a much better idea about the Moylan/TMM situation as well as the FB situation if we had of just moved Moylan.

You just repeat shit that doesn't gel with reality. Errors from trying to create is not an issue when compared to his results in attack. It's just people want to blow that shit up. Like in the Tigers game, he scored a try and gave the last pass for two more and forced a line drop out in a period where he basically orchestrated the match winning lead. But during that time he also threw a behind the back ball over the sideline, his only error for the match. Guess what people f**king remember? Or want to talk about? Nevermind Cleary coughed up possession early in the count in our first attacking set, no-one had shit to say about that.

Sunday two of those errors were his actual fault, three if you want to claim poor ball security for what would have been a strip most times. They were not a result of him trying to create. Cleary had two errors. Moses had three against us in his much talked up performance.

Our first match against the Tigers Moylan twice put down a pass with a hole in front of him and did a Benji no looker over the sideline. Forgotten at the end of the match.

Errors from Cartwright trying to create are not an issue, he's not particularly prone to it in comparison to other players, including ours, it is not statistically an issue and not an issue for anyone whose eyes are not painted on.

And no he can't do the same job from wide back row, I addressed that nonsense earlier in the thread but the try assist stat just posted should do that shit away.

 

[betcats]

You just repeat shit that doesn't gel with reality. Errors from trying to create is not an issue when compared to his results in attack. It's just people want to blow that shit up. Like in the Tigers game, he scored a try and gave the last pass for two more and forced a line drop out in a period where he basically orchestrated the match winning lead. But during that time he also threw a behind the back ball over the sideline, his only error for the match. Guess what people f**king remember? Or want to talk about? Nevermind Cleary coughed up possession early in the count in our first attacking set, no-one had shit to say about that.

Sunday two of those errors were his actual fault, three if you want to claim poor ball security for what would have been a strip most times. They were not a result of him trying to create. Cleary had two errors. Moses had three against us in his much talked up performance.

Our first match against the Tigers Moylan twice put down a pass with a hole in front of him and did a Benji no looker over the sideline. Forgotten at the end of the match.

Errors from Cartwright trying to create are not an issue, he's not particularly prone to it in comparison to other players, including ours, it is not statistically an issue and not an issue for anyone whose eyes are not painted on.

And no he can't do the same job from wide back row, I addressed that nonsense earlier in the thread but the try assist stat just posted should do that shit away.

Josh Papali(backrower) has 8 try assits this year in less minutes than Carty all for only 9 errors, quck move him to the halves! lol you haven't addressed anything you've just blamed other people for his mistakes.

 

[betcats]

yeah nah i know, moylan is better just saying cartwright is doing fine

Jackson Hastings got dropped from a bottom four side weeks ago and he still has 9 try assists same as Carty.

Cartwright would rack up try assists playing anywhere and 9 isn't really a large amount, Blake Ayshford has 8 and he is a reserve grader in most teams.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

It always amuses me the way ChrisD spins out when someone suggests Cartwright would be better served (as an individual, and for the team as a whole) in a position outside of 6, when he thinks so himself:

If it were up to me,
1. Hiku/Edwards (unless Hardaker shows something, but he'd need a real chance for that and we don't have the time now, or I'd send feelers out to Lolohea)
6.Moylan
8. Merrin
13. Cartwright

And I have no room for TMM in the side with Cleary and Moylan in the halves and Peach being a more valuable bench utility. Unless TMM can replace Wallace as a permanent hooker.

But that's all next year, no time now to move Moylan this season.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

Frankly, you have lost all sense of perspective and should be ashamed of yourselves. Penrith fans? Really?

This is a ridiculous way to approach a forum designed to discuss a sports team. Why are you here if you get all riled up when people have different opinions to you? Like it or not, most people here who don't like Cartwright at 5/8 discuss the game and how he performs; they don't do what you have done here and sook about other fans and what they think.

Talk about needing perspective.

 

[Abacus]

I struggle with the same people wanting Cartwright out of the halves want DWZ at FB. No doubt DWZ is an athlete and great in broken play but, from memory, his first 3 touches the other night was a knock-back from a bomb, a dodgy pass (which Cartwright knocked on) and an off-balance (some would say lucky) catch of a bomb.

If we had a legitimate (and safe) option to take over at FB, I'd be right on board the Moylan to 5/8 bandwagon. I really think its a toss of a coin between DWZ at FB or Cartwright at 5/8. And presumably Hardaker on the wing with JFH or Matagi to bench?

As for Cartwright's performance the other night, he looked to be really flat. Whether due to confidence, maybe flu, or something else, I don't know. As mentioned by someone earlier in the thread, his game should be run first regardless of what number is on his back. Then just let his ridiculous talent take over.

 

[Fibroman]

Putting opinions aside, it would be a big call to suggest that Carty's rep career will be at 6 and Moylan at 1? They are both doing a great job for the side in their current positions, but for them to achieve at the highest level (Origin/Australia) they both probably need to be playing with a different number on their back in the future.

 

[chrisD]

Cartwright would rack up try assists playing anywhere

You really are just immune to reality. Someone posted the very stats proving that shit wrong on the previous page.

 

[betcats]

You really are just immune to reality. Someone posted the very stats proving that shit wrong on the previous page.

Lol no they didn't. I cant believe I just went looking for it as well.

 

[Doomednow]

We can both like Cartwright and think he should be in the back row rather than number 6 at the same time. It's not a difficult opinion to understand.

 

[Pomoz]

This is a ridiculous way to approach a forum designed to discuss a sports team. Why are you here if you get all riled up when people have different opinions to you? Like it or not, most people here who don't like Cartwright at 5/8 discuss the game and how he performs; they don't do what you have done here and sook about other fans and what they think.

Talk about needing perspective.

Getting schooled by billypilgrimz on Forum etiquette is a bitter pill to swallow. Kettle. Pot. However, you are right. I'll cop the "sook" remark on the chin, I have already apologised about my "fans" comment. I shouldn't play the man and concentrate on the ball "the argument". I don't get riled up when people have different opinions to mine, but I will always get riled up if I think players are being singled out unfairly. I won't change that stance. If you make statements that can't be supported then your opinion deserves to be criticised.

It would seem nearly everybody in the world, including myself, wants Moylan at 5/8th, except for Hook. We turned the discussion from "Hook should pick Moylan" to Cartwright is useless. I don't see why wanting Moylan at 5/8th, requires people to stick the boot into Cartwright. He has clearly done a good job in difficult circumstances and every bit of data points to that. I'm sure he probably would prefer to be at lock or second row as well.

For the record, I thought Hook should have tried it earlier, but to be fair, DWZ was in awful form and playing without confidence. He dropped that much ball and fell over against the Warriors he would have been mad to put DWZ at fullback. In the last few weeks though DWZ has improved. Hardaker is an unknown quantity in the NRL and in any case has only been here a short while. Hook really didn't have a lot of choice, Smith was awful and is now out injured so he would be looking at bringing in Edwards from u20's into one of the most difficult positions on the field. The band aid is working OK with Moylan sometimes playing 5/8th and sometimes Cartwright playing that role.

It will be fascinating next year if TMM is picked to see what happens because the expression "too many cooks" comes to mind. I'm sure they can work through it, but it will take some time.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

We turned the discussion from "Hook should pick Moylan" to Cartwright is useless.

But quite literally no-one is doing this.