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"Too many NRL teams in Sydney "Gallop.

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,968
In 1994:

Wests and Balmain combined ave. 14,184 today 15,497. Balmain ran last in 1994 and Wests were 13th.

St.George (6th) and illawarra (11th) combined ave 23,144 today 10,554

Norths averaged 15,116

So where are all the lost supporters? Union? AFL? Surfing? No longer passionate?

What advantage is there for Souths to move to Gosford? In Sydney with an average team and crap stadium they average 14,036 this will continue to grow with success in Gosford they would average 15,000. They have a great junior league and plenty of corporate support. Why move for an extra 1000 people?
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
Blind Freddy said:
erm... when did this happen??? And don't pull out the Northern eagles crap, because i'm talkin before that! and the areas hate each other.

I don't recall a team ever in the NRL called the CC Bears?? And it only failed because the stadium being built (bluetounge) didn't get completed in time, while the bears were playing at lang park and other grounds losing copious amounts of money in the meantime....and add to that they were still regarded as a Sydney team, when they should have been granted country team status because they had commited to the move up the coast.
Yeah, we kinda did get f**ked over in that entire process:(
 

Copa

Bench
Messages
4,969
Clubs don't know how to take advantage of the huge opportunities around them...... they are too often run by ex-rl folk and not cunning businessfolk.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,968
Exactly, that is the difference between union/AFL and RL. Every Sydney club should have a modern stadium of 20-25,000, we should stop pandering to TV and set KO times suitable to each club, bring the "feel good factor" back which was so evident in the 90's, grow the game at all levels, look for new revenue streams, get rid of the hacks running our clubs.
 

mark123

Juniors
Messages
828
If you are talking about the apparent lack of business savvy at a lot of NRL clubs and missed opertunities to maximise revenue, you'd be on the right track to keeping a lot of clubs in the black. But we all know there are too many teams in sydney itself and its more a hindrance than a help.

I am sure with better business acumen going around clubs can be better off financially but this whole thing is not about making clubs better off just so financially - its about creating the ability for the competition as a whole, and everything in it, to be more national and develop extra money from that regard, rather than individual clubs being better at managing their finances in a comp thats east coast based. I am not sure what the future holds, perhaps most of the population in the future will be based on the east coast maybe 90%+, who knows, but it will always cut out two major markets in perth and adelaide and other regions within qld and nsw as well. The more people from the more regions you get to a game, the more money i bet they will pay you to advertise.

I do agree that clubs managing their finances better is a step in the right direction, but I dont think it will save Sydney's league teams in the long run. Not only do you need more money, but you need to use that money in the right way. And to have enough money, i believe the competition needs to have the right platform, and a national competition is that platform. Some may say throw in News ltd's over involvement into the pie as well, and that is a factor too, along with too many teams in sydney and bad press coverage and poor facilities in some places. It all goes together. Improvement should not stop until total efficiency is achieved, or people are truly satisfied with the competitions' performance.

As fans, we should have the luxury of just sitting back and enjoying the game, but at this time, we unfortunately dont, because its blatantly clear we are shooting ourselves in the foot by having these issues standing over the game. Its all tied together, and it will all be sorted out because us supporters are not overly happy about our comp not being the best it can be, and we want it different. If love makes the world go round, (but it doesnt) we actually make the comp go around.

The alternitive is to cry about it a lot like we did for a long time when nothing could be done....at last now something can be "began" to be done about it all, and lets do it. Now is not the time to go "but my club is bigger than the game, even if its kind of shrinking it a little."

Thats what its about in this case. People constantly say you need more revenue streams, whatever lingo you want to throw at it....what you really need is more "CROWDS." A crowd spreads the word, a crowd looks good on tv and to everyone looking AT it. A crowd spends its money on the thing it goes to see....thats not a new revenue stream, its a BIGGER ONE. Invest all you like clubs, you'll wait years for a decent return even if its a good return, but if you want cold hard cash today when you need it, try and get a bigger crowd....and the crowd is more than that, its a fuel....it means INTEREST but not in the bank kind....it generates interest and adds value to all other aspects of the game....juniors go up with interest, money goes up, all merchandise goes up....crowds are what its all about. As a fan, being in a crowd is what its all about.

I am POSITIVE the media and the supporters can turn all this into a warm and positive experience if its approached with a "we'll be better for it dont you worry about that!" attitude. Not the doom and gloom it must all be over one we used to have. We didnt make that experience - the SL experience....but as concerned fans we can make this experience and have a say in how it will be played out.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,968
You are looking at it from a corporate point of view, you forget it is a sport first and foremost, people have an emotional attachment to their clubs tamper with this and you risk losing your market.
 

mark123

Juniors
Messages
828
this stuff aint happening tommorow you know.

If you want to upset a few thousand real people, go ahead, but when other things are taking your money and your juniors, go for it, have it.

on the one hand you have broncos with 35,000 averages (growing each year for 7 years) with crowds oftimes at 50,000 people each year, and then you have sharks playing in front of a few thousand and the roosters playing at a ghost stadium.

Alienate them, you can have it.

As it is, i only watch broncos games. It is the atmosphere as a neutral that made a lot of other teams' games bearable from a neutrals point of view. If you see an empty stadium, you think who cares. Its a total turn off.

Now if its not broncos, cowboys, titans, newcastle(sometimes) you can forget it, its abysmal and embarrassing.

Scotish football have two teams that draw well: celtic and rangers.

But scotland football is not exactly a leader at anything is it?

What you want is an English premier league.

One generates huge sums of money and enjoys enormous crowd support....the other has the eyes picked out of it constantly, generates little money, and little crowd support, and is at constant threat of being merged into the english premier league - but guess who they'll take....celtic and rangers.

Why have a second class citizen attitude?

Maybe if corporate was taking care of itself, you'd not have to worry our pleasure of watching a game when you realise one day it may no longer be there.

No thanks, lets ensure its future please.
 

S.S.T.I.D

Bench
Messages
3,641
Gallop should spend more time trying to increase the NRL's revenue streams than bleating about how he will relocate clubs.
 

greenhat

Juniors
Messages
552
Out of interest, what does everyone reckon is the right way to go about relcation. Lets just say for example the sharks moved to gosford.
Would it be best to maybe still play 1 -3 games a year at shark park? and maybe put 'CRLFC' on the back of the jersey like the SMFC on the swans jersey?

Or would it best to cut all ties and let Gosford feel like the team was really theirs?
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,968
Maybe if corporate was taking care of itself, you'd not have to worry our pleasure of watching a game when you realise one day it may no longer be there.

No thanks, lets ensure its future please

Why is RL dying...I don't think so. Don't believe the scare mongering in the papers, they have been saying RL was dying since the 30's guess what.

Oh so lets kill off a Sydney club and put them in Adelaide, that hot bed of RL, no junior players, no real interest, two massive AFL teams to compete with. If you think RL will ever compete in Adelaide with AFL clubs you are deluded, league may get max 10,000. Look at Melbourne after their original 20,000 home crowd (mostly curious) they have only had over 15,000 7 times since, and they have been very successful.

Why move Cronulla to Gosford? What do you gain? What do you lose? Realistically if any club should move it should be the Roosters.
 

bobmar28

Bench
Messages
4,304
Front-Rower said:
Well seeing the bulldogs don't technically represent an area anymore they should be the first ones moved out of Sydney then right? or doesn't what you have just said apply to your team?
Have you seen the crowds at Bulldogs home games? Although I can see a merger with another club at some time in the future and be based in Liverpool.
 

bobmar28

Bench
Messages
4,304
LeagueXIII said:
Moving teams like chess pieces fails to take into account the emotional side of the sport, this is where all the damage was caused during the SL war.
The NRL needs to GROW the game's revenue streams not just move teams around, this is the easy option.
Why are there too many teams in Sydney yet the AFL are looking at another team and I'm sure union or the A-League would love another team. I think if there was another team in Sydney it should be a RL team not AFL, union or soccer.
There is a chapter in John O'Neills new book about what rugby union could see happening to RL during and after the SL war. It's a warning for anyone who wanting to f*** with the fabric of the sport.
Ask yourself what Norths fans are doing now?
You want to see ten teams in Sydney???
 

bobmar28

Bench
Messages
4,304
LebaneseForces said:
We do need to cut Sydney teams (Reality)... And if it's the Bulldogs then so be it.

BUT by doing it now (Or in a few years) the NRL will be handing supporters to AFL and RU.

Imagine a Bulldogs or Parramatta get cut... The AFL would be loving it, they bring in a team at Homebush and automatically have the biggest supporter base in Sydney (With some money and smart advertising and we all the AFL have that). Cronulla are my team to go, sorry guys but it'll have the least impact IMHO. Bulldog don't have a specific area anymore (Although Canterbury-Bankstown will always be it's heartland) because our supporters come from all over NSW... We have the biggest (Or close to it at Worst) supporter base in Sydney.
The NRL had their chance to kick the Doggies out, they wouldn't have the Balls and if they did, they know RL will lose big time.
If the Dogs were kicked out I would be finding another RL team to support. No way would I start following AFL.
 

RL1908

Bench
Messages
2,717
bobmar28 said:
If the Dogs were kicked out I would be finding another RL team to support. No way would I start following AFL.

While many would find another club, many won't.

Not every Norths supporter, nor every Magpies or Balmain supporter, has taken up another RL team to support - many find it hard to cheer for another team, or one created by a merger (that feels not quite the same). How many Souths fans took up with another Sydney club when the Rabbitohs were excluded?

Faced with that, many look to another code rather than support another NRL club.

The answer is not to cut Sydney clubs, but for the current clubs to grow their supporter/sponsor base, and the for the NRL to grow the game's income. There are no Leagues clubs backing AFL clubs in Melbourne - the Sydney RL clubs, now they can't rely on Leagues clubs (for the first time since the 1950s) have to face that reality, and create new income streams elsewhere.

Running away to a new area is not the answer as it will diminish RL's hold on Sydney - Sydney fans who lose their club will not (for the most part) take up supporting another Sydney club. Reducing the number of Sydney clubs is not the answer.

The only way to do it is to toss aside every current Sydney NRL club and create entirely new clubs (of whatever number is preferred) - that way it is fair to everyone & fans may take up one of the new clubs. But it will never happen - as to do this will be the death of RL in Sydney and probably Australia.

It is the established Sydney clubs that give RL its heart and soul - that is why Super League failed - they failed to undestand the mentality of Sydney RL clubs and their supporters.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,968
EXACTLY!!!!

Moving teams out of Sydney will only damage the game in Sydney and it's been through enough. Without support in Sydney you can kiss goodbye large TV contracts.

Bobmar28 Sydney can easily sustain 10 clubs, look at the northshore and central coast, a RL blackhole crying out for a team. Has a history of league, population of 800,000. If this was an independent city in QLD or Sth Australia for example people would be saying it's a crime there is no team there.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
bobmar28 said:
If the Dogs were kicked out I would be finding another RL team to support. No way would I start following AFL.

Easier said than done.
Persoanlly took me 2-3 years to get into a merge of my old team and another, one thing to say you could find a totally different club to support, another thing to actually do it.
 

t-ba

Post Whore
Messages
57,771
RL1908 said:
The only way to do it is to toss aside every current Sydney NRL club and create entirely new clubs (of whatever number is preferred) - that way it is fair to everyone & fans may take up one of the new clubs. But it will never happen - as to do this will be the death of RL in Sydney and probably Australia.

That should have happened in the 1980's. Once the Broncos started playing in the NSWRL, any hope for consolidation in Sydney without severe damage to RL was doomed. Fans just assumed it was their clubs birthright to compete in a national comp.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,711
Good old sydney centric attitude - "no one wants to follow league outside of sydney", "if sydney teams are cut their fans will just follow another code". No wonder the storm are barely noticed by anyone.
 

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