Who replaces Cappy?

[Mr Angry]

Enter Mr Jones, Then or even before get Cleary as Chief Of Operations and Recruitment. Ivan buys the squads my favourite kiwi WGHB coaches the players.

Give a local a go FFS.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Stacey can be halves coach.

 

[Mr Angry]

They need it, one potential legend, and old hard head, TLL I mean.

 

[JJ]

Sounds eerily similar to the situation when the knives were out for Elliott. Everyone was saying how good Cappy would be if they gave him a chance...

very much

 

[Philip_Smith007]

I don't agree with this one bit.

My case in point would be Ayshford and Kata, particularly Ayshford. Kata was a turnstile last year and Ayshford has long been hated on for his defence, beyond his good years at the Tigers. And look how we're talking about Ayshford, like that side is impenetrable. Kata has come a long way as well.

Defence is attitude and ours stinks. We aren't getting beaten for lack of systems, it's lack of heart and effort. Look at the first 20 minutes last week. People clocking off around the ruck and just basic dumb, lazy shit. That's not on Morgan.

I am consistently impressed with Morgan when he talks and actually think he might be a smokey as the interim coach, should (PLEASE) there be one if a better coach is not appointed. Our players may or may not respect him - if they do he might get the nod - and he has done a fair apprenticeship. If it's not with us, he'll go elsewhere and be a top 8 coach. I am convinced of it.

Course our players might not want someone as strong-minded as him. We'll see.

2 out of 25 not bad!

While I am not all over what a NRL top level defensive coach actually does, I'm sure structure, attitude and technique of tackling is right up there in importance.

I also like the way Mogan talks, but I also liked how Elliott talked.
There is something missing in the fabric of our players, that seems to in general get fixed when they go to other clubs.

Morgan is only the answer if the question is "what is the surname of the serial killer in the TV series of the name and theirs first name Dexter?"

 

[JJ]

All suggests the culture of the club is wrong - and usually has been. That starts at the top with the ownership and the CEO - and my god haven't we had a veritable cluster f**k of all of them. Jim Doyle was viewed as the saviour (not sure why to be honest, but I am/was happy that Scurrah is gone). He's inherited a dog's breakfast but aside from the high profile signings done nothing tangible to change anything.

We've never had a proven NRL coach - Monie was the closest but he had the great Parramatta team - I'm pretty sure Sterling, Price, Kenny, Cronin, Ella, et al coached themselves (as did Wigan).

Anderson was a fine coach, but had a dickhead CEO and clearly is one of those that can only stay at a club for a limited time. Cleary was serviceable and John Hart's role clearly important.

We don't know what's going on behind the scenes but there really needs to be an overhaul - a football manager with credibility (like Gould at Penrith) a coach who's proven to a degree, out with the rest imo. Quick fixes won't change things, we've had quick fixes for too long.

As I said earlier it's almost like they should bite the bullet with some of the roster too - it's been done previously with great success (Bennett in the early Broncos days), but also elsewhere - Brian Smith building the Eels (ok, didn't quite work out - he also did it at St George) and even Gould et al at Penrith - they shed some big names and while the results aren't quite there yet you have to like what you see week-to-week as opposed to our shambles (also Gould in the first stint with Penrith - a mix of hard heads and prodigious young talent)...

McFadden isn't up to it, clearly - but you have to wonder if anyone would be in that environment.

 

[RHYTHM AND STEALTH]

Would Mick Potter be a good fit here

 

[Mighty Ape Man]

Cleary should be on a plane right now. Hope they get him before the Tigers pounce

 

[Penrose Warrior]

All suggests the culture of the club is wrong - and usually has been. That starts at the top with the ownership and the CEO - and my god haven't we had a veritable cluster f**k of all of them. Jim Doyle was viewed as the saviour (not sure why to be honest, but I am/was happy that Scurrah is gone). He's inherited a dog's breakfast but aside from the high profile signings done nothing tangible to change anything.

We've never had a proven NRL coach - Monie was the closest but he had the great Parramatta team - I'm pretty sure Sterling, Price, Kenny, Cronin, Ella, et al coached themselves (as did Wigan).

Anderson was a fine coach, but had a dickhead CEO and clearly is one of those that can only stay at a club for a limited time. Cleary was serviceable and John Hart's role clearly important.

We don't know what's going on behind the scenes but there really needs to be an overhaul - a football manager with credibility (like Gould at Penrith) a coach who's proven to a degree, out with the rest imo. Quick fixes won't change things, we've had quick fixes for too long.

As I said earlier it's almost like they should bite the bullet with some of the roster too - it's been done previously with great success (Bennett in the early Broncos days), but also elsewhere - Brian Smith building the Eels (ok, didn't quite work out - he also did it at St George) and even Gould et al at Penrith - they shed some big names and while the results aren't quite there yet you have to like what you see week-to-week as opposed to our shambles (also Gould in the first stint with Penrith - a mix of hard heads and prodigious young talent)...

McFadden isn't up to it, clearly - but you have to wonder if anyone would be in that environment.

That's a good point, that we have never enticed a good established NRL coach to come here, in 21 years of existence. That's a bit scary. It's kinda like with players, you're not uprooting yourself and your family to another country unless the price and situation is right. Trouble is with coaches, we can't particularly overpay like we can with players. There's no coaching salary cap so it's easier for other sides to match us. So maybe that trend will continue and gee, that is worrisome. And they probably look over here and see a culture that might be too hard to change, a level of player power and the fact you could really put a blot on your coaching CV if you took it.

I would 100% back a clearout of the roster. Some have been there too long and are rooted in the mire of this club. Would we let Manu go to Japan Rugby to chase the bucks? I love the guy but maybe it's time. Gee, that would be hard PR-wise though. Ben Matulino looks like he's had enough, can we sign Sam Moa and let him go? Then the Hurrells, the Lousis, the u20s who have been around too long...they can go too. Not Shaun, for mine. Give him a chance to finally play FG under a decent coach (if we get one).

 

[Rich102]

Enter Mr Jones, Then or even before get Cleary as Chief Of Operations and Recruitment. Ivan buys the squads my favourite kiwi WGHB coaches the players.

Give a local a go FFS.


You mean like Endacott, Kemp, Graham, Bluey etc?

 

[Rich102]

OPINION: Warriors fans are being taken for granted, and I'll admit I'm about to contribute to the problem.

The New Zealand Warriors aren't being held back by leaky left-edge defence. It isn't Andrew McFadden and his coaching staff that are letting the side down. The fact Shaun Johnson busted his leg last year is neither here nor there.

The issue is us. Be it columnist, TV talking head, Tweeter or contributor to Stuff Nation; every time we write the club's name or talk about them with friends, we are giving our approval of the status quo.

As long as you care, New Zealand Warriors managing direction Jim Doyle is happy.

As New Zealand rugby league fans we are meant to care about the Warriors, even when we should be beyond caring. We are told we have to as they're sold to us as OUR team, when if they were one of the nine Sydney-based franchises we could all head off north, east, west or south to a happier and more fulfilled life.

It's a marriage in which fans are being taken for granted. If we are meant to love the Warriors, where is the love coming back in return? Are we are meant to love them waving the Melbourne Storm forwards through the heart of the defence, or through the holes to the left as they run up 42 unanswered points?

It's not just this season. Season after season has started with swiftly dashed high hopes. Serial disappointment, yet still fans stay wedded to the Warriors, to a dysfunctional relationship.

Warriors managing director Jim Doyle said as much, ahead of the club's clash with Canterbury-Bankstown at Westpac Stadium earlier this month. "There's certain teams, certain sports; whether they win or lose no-one cares," Doyle said of the NZ sports franchise market.

He went on to quote independent research which suggested that, in terms of "avid" fans "the Warriors in New Zealand are by far, a country mile, ahead of every other team apart from, obviously, the national teams.

Warriors star Shaun Johnson is yet to find his feet in the No 6 jersey in this year's NRL.

"That's because we are one-team, one-country and we play in the toughest competition in the world. Viewership of the NRL is huge and therefore expectations on the Warriors has always been high and I think one of the biggest issues we're facing right now [is] expectations are higher than they've been for a long, long time because of our recruitment.

"Because of getting Roger [Tuivasa-Sheck], Issac [Luke] and others and Shaun [Johnson] being back, therefore expectations are up here and if you don't deliver it's a bigger fall. Whereas there's been years where the Warriors have been a lot worse but their expectations were a lot lower, therefore people didn't really jump on the bandwagon as much."

So if you want to voice your displeasure at where the Warriors' 2016 campaign appears to be going, or isolate every instance in which the club failed you during Monday's 42-0 loss to Melbourne, don't.


By not making a murmur you're actually saying more than any amount of ranting might do.


The "one-team, one-country" thing has enabled the Warriors to take our interest for granted for 21 years now and it's time we saw them for what they are. The Warriors are no more our club or your club than Manly or the Wests Tigers are.

In fact were the Warriors one of the competition's nine Sydney-based clubs, they'd hardly rate a mention. Never won a title, haven't made the playoffs since 2011; they'd be just another also-ran.


The recruitment of Roger Tuivasa-Sheck heightened expectations of the Warriors.

It's us that makes them significant, who feed the continuing delusions of grandeur. We'd like the team to do well so we project our own hopes and dreams upon them, annointing them as a nailed-on top-four certainly every season and predicting the birth of a dynasty.

Remember 2011 when the first grade, reserve grade and under-20 teams all made the grand final? Weren't we all told that would herald something? What about the three under-20 titles won by the club; weren't they mean to be proof the Warriors would be a powerhouse for years to come?

Doyle uses the word "expectations" and a combination of slick marketing and misplaced patriotism have allowed the Warriors to generate expectations far beyond reality.

Don't let them. Walk away, change the channel. They'll notice that. You can always jump back on the bandwagon in September, should the club be involved in finals' football.

In the meantime why not marvel at Johnathan Thurston and Kieran Foran and all those other players in the NRL that compete on every play. One club shouldn't spoil your enjoyment of an entire code.

- Dominion Post

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinio...makes-the-new-zealand-warriors-so-frustrating

 

[spear tackle]

That article above just convinced me that we need a second team in NZ

 

[Rich102]

Five options if the Warriors choose to go for a new head coach

The Warriors put in one of their worst performances of 2016 to be thumped 42-0 by the Melbourne Storm on Anzac Day.

Should the Warriors be asking head coach Andrew McFadden to walk the plank after the Anzac Day ambush in Melbourne?

McFadden was an understandably frustrated man after the 42-0 shellacking at the hands of the Storm on Monday night.

McFadden is only 38 and is contracted till the end of 2017. He's been at the helm for 51 games with a 43 per cent wins ratio.


It isn't the coach who drops passes and misses tackles, but the Warriors front office will have to ask themselves whether McFadden is the man to turn around their under-performing team.

If the answer is no, then who fills the breach?

We look at the options.


IVAN CLEARY (45). Games (as a first grade coach) 249. Winning percentage: 49.

Letting Cleary go to the Panthers in 2012 ranks as one of the worst front office decisions in the Warriors' chequered history.

Unlike some other Australian coaches (notably John Monie), Cleary understood New Zealand players after his three-season stint as a Warriors back.

Got the Warriors to four playoff series, culminating in the grand final in 2011, but left at the end of that season after Penrith's predations with the Warriors failing to give him the longer term security he craved.

Had four years with the Panthers, winning coach of the year in 2014, but was surprisingly let go last year by Panthers' guru Phil Gould, who felt Cleary was burnt out and needed a break.

Cleary made it clear, after a holiday in the Maldives, that he was "absolutely committed to being a head coach".

VERDICT: A proven NRL coach who would slot seamlessly back in at Mt Smart Stadium.




GEOFF TOOVEY (46) Games: 102. Winning percentage: 58.

Sacked by Manly last year after 30 years at Brookvale Oval as a player and a coach, Toovey had a hard act to follow on the northern beaches, taking over from Des Hasler, who won the grand final with the Sea Eagles in 2011. Toovey took Manly to within one game of the grand final in 2012 and they were beaten finalists the following season.

But the nuggety former halfback and hooker, who played well above his weight, fell out of favour in his final two years with the club and was replaced for 2016 by Trent Barrett.

Back working in Sydney as an accountant, but still harbours an ambition to coach first grade again. "I've made that known to the NRL how I'd like to stay involved," he said last month.

VERDICT: Did well in his first couple of seasons at Manly, but would he relate to Kiwi players? It would be good for Shaun Johnson to have an ex-halfback to coach him in the finer points of the game, but Stacey Jones is already at the club.



JUSTIN MORGAN (40). Games: 178 (English Super League). Winning percentage: 56.

The current Warriors assistant coach was a journeyman NRL forward who ended his first grade career with two seasons at the Warriors before retiring early at the age of 26.

Morgan was only 29 when he started his coaching career at French club Toulouse Olympic, who he guided to Super League's Challenge Cup semifinals.

He was poached by English championship club Hull Kingston Rovers and led them to a grand final victory over the Widnes Vikings to win promotion to the Super League premier division.

Morgan spent seven seasons at Craven Park, steering them into the 2010 playoffs where they scored a memorable win over crosstown rivals Hull FC.

The Sydneysider returned to Australia to become an assistant coach at the Raiders and had two years working under one of the game's best coaches, Craig Bellamy, at the the Melbourne Storm before becoming McFadden's assistant this year.

VERDICT: A promising coach who already has plenty of head coaching experience, but he's already part of the coaching team. Is a new face needed?



STEPHEN KEARNEY (43) NRL: Games: 42. Winning percentage: 24. Kiwis: Games: 41. Winning percentage: 59.

The statistics don't tell the full story for Stephen Kearney, who had a disastrous spell as a NRL head coach with the under-powered Parramatta Eels.

But he's entering his ninth season as Kiwis coach and became the first New Zealand to win the World Cup in 2008. Also has two Four Nations titles under his belt and has guided the Kiwis to a number one world ranking.

Kearney was a student of the game in a 14-year first grade career as an outstanding backrower. He won a premiership as a player at the Melbourne Storm and more honours after returning to the Storm in 2006 as Craig Bellamy's assistant coach.

Struck out on his own at the Eels in 2011 and was sacked early the following season.

Became assistant-coach at the Brisbane Broncos in 2013 and helped Wayne Bennett (his technical adviser during the Kiwis' World Cup win) take the team to the 2015 grand final.

VERDICT: The Eels experience was a blot on an otherwise impressive coaching CV, but worthy of another first grade head coaching gig. The best Kiwi candidate for the Warriors post, but would he want to leave the buoyant Broncos?



DAVID KIDWELL (39). No NRL head coaching games.

An abrasive second rower and sometime centre who played 241 games for six NRL clubs, Kidwell turned to coaching in 2010 as the mentor for the South Sydney under-20 team which lost the NYC grand final to the Junior Warriors.

Another Craig Bellamy protege who was a Storm assistant coach when the Melbourne club won the 2012 premiership. Kidwell then switched to Wests Tigers in 2014, working first under Tim Sheens and then the embattled Jason Taylor.

Christchurch-born Kidwell never played for the Warriors, but he had 25 tests for New Zealand, was a former Junior Kiwis head coach, is Kearney's assistant with the Kiwis and would bleed for the Kiwi cause.

VERDICT: A long-shot option due to his lack of first grade head coaching experience - and the Tigers have been worse than the Warriors this season. But he was a hard man on the playing field and woe betide any Warrior loafing on David Kidwell's watch.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league...he-warriors-choose-to-go-for-a-new-head-coach

 

[Rich102]

For me.
Boot Crappy now. He isn't offering anything.
Get Toovey ASAP. The team need a hard nosed coach. If they don't like it they can walk.
If Toovey can't come till next year appoint Morgan as interim coach.

No more jobs for the boys.

 

[Alan Johnson]

That article above just convinced me that we need a second team in NZ

It would make a difference I'm sure of that.

Is there scope for having a second NZ team in the NSW Cup? It would be great if there was one spot for an NZ-based team in the NRL but somehow we incorporate a local promotion/relegation system where local clubs are able to compete for that spot. On its face that scheme isn't feasible - how would teams attract or retain enough talent to knock the Warriors off their perch? - but I like the idea that the Warriors place in the NRL isn't safe.

 

[Big Marn]

Probably need someone not on that list.
Someone that has actually won something. Thats the only way these players are going to buy into the coaches plans, when they can see it has had proven success at NRL level. (internationals dont count as they are predominantly one offs or short 3 match series, not a 26 week grind when you have to be ready for battle every week)
They look at Cappy, Elliott, McClennan, Iro, Cleary, and see a coach that hasnt actually "won" anything (so why should they listen to them) unless you consider making the 8 a win. IF the 8 is considered a win, then i guess Toovey and Cleary are your best bets. But most players want ultimate success, so we need a coach who has won the ultimate prize. Be interesting to see what happens at Souths in the next few weeks as there is a NRL winning coach sitting there at the moment.
What is Tim Sheens up to at the moment.

 

[Alan Johnson]

I think for our purposes the 8 *is* the win - or more importantly, regularly making the 8. This from another thread is relevant here.

That's what effectively every team aims for. If you're consistently making the eight, you give yourself a chance.

It's how Dallas won the NBA a few years back - they kept making the playoffs, and eventually went on the run they'd given themselves a chance for.

Our problem is we can't seem to even keep our shit together long enough to make the eight.

We kept making the eight under Ivan and eventually got on the right run to make the GF.

For us at the moment making the 8 basically relies on fortune and fluke. There is no systematic growth or development that makes it more likely one year than in another. If making the 8 was our key KPI we would be failing and the whole place would be restructured and most of the staff sacked.

 

[spear tackle]

It would make a difference I'm sure of that.

Is there scope for having a second NZ team in the NSW Cup? It would be great if there was one spot for an NZ-based team in the NRL but somehow we incorporate a local promotion/relegation system where local clubs are able to compete for that spot. On its face that scheme isn't feasible - how would teams attract or retain enough talent to knock the Warriors off their perch? - but I like the idea that the Warriors place in the NRL isn't safe.

It probably isn't feasible, I was thinking more on the lines that with two teams Warriors wouldn't be able to claim they are "New Zealands team" and therefore would have to preform better and more consistently than the other NZ based team because if they don't they will start to loose support faster then they are currently. At the moment all it takes is one win and people flock back thinking we're back on track then we loose again (often badly) with another team in the mix fans wouldn't be taken for granted.

 

[vvvrulz]

I think for our purposes the 8 *is* the win - or more importantly, regularly making the 8.

Which is why I can't fathom why we offloaded Cleary. He regularly got us in the 8 and at least put us in a position to compete for the title, sure we weren't title favorites but at least there was life in our season and us being the Warriors we have a couple of the playoffs a real shake up. Felt good to at least be part of the big dance.

Look at us now, it's a 16 team comp ffs, it's ridiculous that we can't even crack the top half of the ladder.

 

[Rich102]

Which is why I can't fathom why we offloaded Cleary. He regularly got us in the 8 and at least put us in a position to compete for the title, sure we weren't title favorites but at least there was life in our season and us being the Warriors we have a couple of the playoffs a real shake up. Felt good to at least be part of the big dance.

Look at us now, it's a 16 team comp ffs, it's ridiculous that we can't even crack the top half of the ladder.

I totally agree.