2008 Crowd Watch - Final Totals in Post #3778

[Man_of_Steel_1982]

I agree, the game is now being held back by suburban grounds.

At WIN on Friday it was clear where people preferred to sit. The 3 stands were full, while the concourses and hill were far from it. Covered seats all the way around (and close to the action like WIN) would help big time.

 

[Knight87]

I agree, the game is now being held back by suburban grounds.

At WIN on Friday it was clear where people preferred to sit. The 3 stands were full, while the concourses and hill were far from it. Covered seats all the way around (and close to the action like WIN) would help big time.

The question is: How is this going to be achieved though, if the governments aren't going to chip in?

 

[Timmah]

I agree, the game is now being held back by suburban grounds.

At WIN on Friday it was clear where people preferred to sit. The 3 stands were full, while the concourses and hill were far from it. Covered seats all the way around (and close to the action like WIN) would help big time.

Not entirely true. I had grandstand seats but ultimately ended up on the hill to be honest... better view.

 

[Perth Red]

The question is: How is this going to be achieved though, if the governments aren't going to chip in?

It's a good question and one that the powers to be need to find an answer to.

In the UK it happened a couple of ways, local Govt built the grounds using a mixture of private and public money. The grounds are then run by a smc and clubs pay to play at them.

Another way was clubs sold off their existing grounds to developers, govt then chipped in by giving them free land and the money from the sale was used to build the new ground.

Finally the third way is for clubs to unite and form a strong lobby group to redevelop or develop two or three grounds around the city and share them.

Wahtever the answer it is clear that it needs to be found and sooner rather than later.

 

[Man_of_Steel_1982]

Not entirely true. I had grandstand seats but ultimately ended up on the hill to be honest... better view.

Sure, there are exceptions but the clear trend was people went for the stands. On a clear Sunday afternoon, the hill is first choice for many because it's cheapest and a great view.

I was sitting in the northern stand (bought tickets there during the week because of the weather). Usually, it's the last place that fills up. If WIN (and everyone's home ground) was an all seater (with almost all seats covered) crowds would go up.

 

[Perth Red]

They have at every other club that has moved to a purpose built RL stadium so don't see why Sydney would be any different.

 

[t-ba]

It's a good question and one that the powers to be need to find an answer to.

In the UK it happened a couple of ways, local Govt built the grounds using a mixture of private and public money. The grounds are then run by a smc and clubs pay to play at them.

Another way was clubs sold off their existing grounds to developers, govt then chipped in by giving them free land and the money from the sale was used to build the new ground.

Finally the third way is for clubs to unite and form a strong lobby group to redevelop or develop two or three grounds around the city and share them.

Wahtever the answer it is clear that it needs to be found and sooner rather than later.

There's also a 'Lottery' for ground funds in the UK which has gone a long way in improving facilities. The Government over there does more for grounds than any Australian Government despite the fact nearly every ground in the UK is privately owned.

We've got $10m together. It's a start. $20m will secure the clubs medium term future, and will probably be enough to keep the club afloat until a move to the SFS becomes palatable to the Northern Beaches public.

It's just a matter of staying alive long enough before the club moves to the SFS. without any upgrades, we move to the Sunshine Coast within a decade. This is enough to keep the club on the Northern Beaches for 15-20 years before the inevitable relocation.

 

[Man_of_Steel_1982]

Another way was clubs sold off their existing grounds to developers, govt then chipped in by giving them free land and the money from the sale was used to build the new ground.

This would definately work for Wollongong.

The land would be worth an astronomical amount. Even better, WIN Stadium is already owned by the State Government. Dismantle what they can and take it with them --> south west. Somewhere between Kembla Grange and Albion Park --> close to the highway and railway (and surrounding suburbs of people).

I've always pushed this as what the neighbouring Steelers club should do. They'd be able to erase their debts and build something better and closer to families.

 

[dallymessenger]

There's also a 'Lottery' for ground funds in the UK which has gone a long way in improving facilities. The Government over there does more for grounds than any Australian Government despite the fact nearly every ground in the UK is privately owned.

We've got $10m together. It's a start. $20m will secure the clubs medium term future, and will probably be enough to keep the club afloat until a move to the SFS becomes palatable to the Northern Beaches public.

It's just a matter of staying alive long enough before the club moves to the SFS. without any upgrades, we move to the Sunshine Coast within a decade. This is enough to keep the club on the Northern Beaches for 15-20 years before the inevitable relocation.

manly will never move to the sfs and you are dreaming to suggest it.

the public transport (lack of trains) from manly to sydney will stop that.

$20 million will make a massive difference to brookie, and theres nothing stopping the club for going for more grants later as newcastle have done.

$20 million is more than a bandaid and would do lots for brookie.

 

[dallymessenger]

Whilst you might enjoy the grass hills it would seem plenty don't. If Brookie was drawing 20,000 (which is a more realistic figure if clubs are to financially survive on gates and memberships) then fine, the people of Manly would be sending a clear message that they like watching RL in an old fashioned ground. As it is they aren't whilst clubs that are playing in modern RL stadiums (not ANZ which I do not class as a good RL stadium) are drawing bigger and bigger crowds it would seem there is enough evidence to suggest that clubs need to find a way to get a decent stadium to play out of or face the realities of a bleak future.

manly are averaging 13,000 and you say the game is going nowhere fast in sydney.

the storm get those crowds, so do canberra, does that mean they should be relocated as well?

and what were perths average crowds after the initial boom.

the less you say on this the better with the ARL helping your club get back on its feet after you guys stabbed sydney rl in the back

if i had to pick between manly where they are or perth, id go manly

 

[dallymessenger]

I live 15 minutes away from Manly and go to as many rugby league games as a I possibly can, but I refuse to go to matches at Brookvale Oval
It's simply terrible

do you think the fact that you arent a manly fan might have something to do with that,

i was at brookie for the saints game, its a fine ground.

 

[t-ba]

It's a medium term band-aid. Anyone with half a brain can figure that out. As clubs like Parramatta, Wests, Canterbury, Souths and Easts consistently average 20k over a season in modern venues, Manly will have to move with the times or risk becoming a dead relic. That move will either involve a centralised venue or the Sunshine Coast.

Long term, unless a 35k seat stadium is built on the Northern Beaches, we are moving. Long term, the infrastructure to the Northern Beaches will improve, which will allow for the club to eventually move to a more central location. Give it an election or two and the entire region will fall to independents at both State and Federal Level, which will mean severe pork barrelling from a Coalition desperate to get it back and a Labor party convinced they can steal a Liberal heartland.

This is a realistic assessment of the situation. $20m is enough for a decade or two but we are absolutely farked in the long run.

 

[dallymessenger]

It's a medium term band-aid. Anyone with half a brain can figure that out. As clubs like Parramatta, Wests, Canterbury, Souths and Easts consistently average 20k over a season in modern venues, Manly will have to move with the times or risk becoming a dead relic. That move will either involve a centralised venue or the Sunshine Coast.

Long term, unless a 35k seat stadium is built on the Northern Beaches, we are moving. Long term, the infrastructure to the Northern Beaches will improve, which will allow for the club to eventually move to a more central location. Give it an election or two and the entire region will fall to independents at both State and Federal Level, which will mean severe pork barrelling from a Coalition desperate to get it back and a Labor party convinced they can steal a Liberal heartland.

This is a realistic assessment of the situation. $20m is enough for a decade or two but we are absolutely farked in the long run.

and like i said before, why cant they go for more later?

asking for $50 million in 1 hit is a lot, getting $20 million and other small amounts is much easier.

with no other nrl team between newcastle and the eastern suburbs, manly has a massive area to market to, and they are all very wealthy.

to suggest the nrl would lose a club with that geographical reach would be stupid.

 

[Dutchy]

20 million will do jack **** for Brookie, maybe if we start getting 20 mill every 2 years like EAS seems to get we could get oursleves a decent stadium.

 

[Perth Red]

manly are averaging 13,000 and you say the game is going nowhere fast in sydney.

the storm get those crowds, so do canberra, does that mean they should be relocated as well?

and what were perths average crowds after the initial boom.

the less you say on this the better with the ARL helping your club get back on its feet after you guys stabbed sydney rl in the back

if i had to pick between manly where they are or perth, id go manly

You want to lay a bet that when melbourne move into their new stadium their attendances won't CONTINUE to grow? Canberra are fortunate to not YET be hit by the fact they rely heavily on pokies, but it may come then yes, 13,000 won't be enough for them to survive on.

re the Reds, build a bridge and get over it, many clubs made many mistakes back then, fortunately for most Sydney clubs they didn't get shafted for it like we did.

 

[t-ba]

and like i said before, why cant they go for more later?

asking for $50 million in 1 hit is a lot, getting $20 million and other small amounts is much easier.

with no other nrl team between newcastle and the eastern suburbs, manly has a massive area to market to, and they are all very wealthy.

Because there is a perfectly suitable stadium in Gosford and a perfectly suitable stadium in Moore Park. The NRL clearly doesn't look at Sydney as a microcosm of Unique regions but rather as one big city with no differing characteristics.

to suggest the nrl would lose a club with that geographical reach would be stupid.

Yeah, and the NRL has done sh*tloads to try and keep a club in Northern Sydney since it was inaugurated.

We were in Serious talks with Conrads back in 2002 to move to the Gold Coast. The NRL did nothing. They forced the club to honour a couple of fixtures at Gosford despite the fact it was bleeding the club dry. They don't care.

 

[t-ba]

20 million will do jack **** for Brookie, maybe if we start getting 20 mill every 2 years like EAS seems to get we could get oursleves a decent stadium.

Which won't happen.

But in Dallyland there are sunshine and lollipops for all.

 

[dallymessenger]

You want to lay a bet that when melbourne move into their new stadium their attendances won't CONTINUE to grow? Canberra are fortunate to not YET be hit by the fact they rely heavily on pokies, but it may come then yes, 13,000 won't be enough for them to survive on.

re the Reds, build a bridge and get over it, many clubs made many mistakes back then, fortunately for most Sydney clubs they didn't get shafted for it like we did.

so balmain, west and norths didnt get shafted because your club betrayed us.

that you dont have an nrl club now is your own fault. sucked in.

stop whining about sydney clubs who have suffered because of SL.

and if melbourne need a new stadium to grow their crowds, then the same can be said of sydney clubs as they upgrade their grounds

 

[dallymessenger]

Which won't happen.

But in Dallyland there are sunshine and lollipops for all.

your club just started lobbying to get brookie upgraded and they have $10 million so far.

if the club had been looking at this earlier theyd have gotten more money by now.

sydney clubs have been lazy and not chased government funding.

in the past decade and looking forward governments have invested $100 million into rl grounds in nsw.

clubs and the nrl just have to lobby governments to get grounds upgraded.

your idea that manly will play at the SFS is a joke

 

[Dutchy]

A joke?

Brookie is so close to being deemed dangerous by OHS standards, we will have no choice.