Axed coach's $900K windfall

[El Diablo]

so what exactly has Hagan done for us to want him as coach?

 

[strider]

Letting Johns walk out of Newcastle would have been financial suicide for the club. Remember up until just recently they were relying on loans to get them through the end of the season. Johns leaving would have seen dollars walk out of the club in a big way. To not give him what he asked would have been to their own detriment. Considering he and Buderus take up the bulk of the salary cap currently that means 23 players either need pay cuts or a new job and then the retention policy revolves around low budget players. They are negotiating the backing of Wests Leagues Club and have only just received committed major sponsorship from two sources in the past six months.

It is a whole different scenario at Parramatta at the moment.

I'm not saying let him walk - but he's gotta be made to understand the Knights can't continue to pay him as much and have absolutely no depth .... the guy is injured half of every season these days .... johns and his manager have been holding that club to randsom and no one stood up to them .... looking at our recent seasons you'd think Nathan Hindmarsh could do the same with us - but he didn't and I'm sure that partly cos he knows the situation with salary cap and because the Parramatta club managed the situation well .... and I believe its the same sort of situation with other clubs and their aging stars.

I am not saying I totally oppose hagan because of it, but I don't see it as a good bit of mangement by him.... if our club picks him as our coach I will certainly support him

 

[Macca_]

so what exactly has Hagan done for us to want him as coach?

Well obviously the club are wanting a change. He is one coach that is available.

Obviously he has won more premierships then our current coach too. And he has coached at Origin level.

It's enough to at least give the guy a fair go anyway.

The opposite question is - what has the guy done to not be wanted as our coach? Reasons like inheriting a squad, origin losses etc which I just posted about are not good enough answers for me.

 

[El Diablo]

The opposite question is - what has the guy done to not be wanted as our coach? Reasons like inheriting a squad, origin losses etc which I just posted about are not good enough answers for me.

so what are good enough answers?

 

[Macca_]

Not those. I stated why they weren't.

I'm more than happy for more to be thrown up, but in my opinion those ones are unfair for the reasons stated.

 

[The Colonel]

I am not saying I totally oppose hagan because of it, but I don't see it as a good bit of mangement by him.... if our club picks him as our coach I will certainly support him

Very few clubs, if any, let the coach do the negotiating as far as dollars go. Hagan may have been opposed but in a situation where the Knights board are faced with paying big money for one player or watching more than just Johns walk out the door I'd say any opposition would have been unheard.

 

[strider]

Very few clubs, if any, let the coach do the negotiating as far as dollars go. Hagan may have been opposed but in a situation where the Knights board are faced with paying big money for one player or watching more than just Johns walk out the door I'd say any opposition would have been unheard.

Yeah, you may be right - I don't really know how Newcastle has done these things.

 

[El Diablo]

Not those. I stated why they weren't.

I'm more than happy for more to be thrown up, but in my opinion those ones are unfair for the reasons stated.

well you seem to be saying a few of the best reasons that show he's not much of a coach aren't good enough so there's really not much left.

if he'd won at origin would you use that as a reason for him being a good coach?

 

[Macca_]

well you seem to be saying a few of the best reasons that show he's not much of a coach aren't good enough so there's really not much left.

if he'd won at origin would you use that as a reason for him being a good coach?

No, not at all. As I said, Origin is a 2 horse race. And not an easy race to win. Having origin coaching experience is enough to say he goes ok.

And you're right, there isn't much left.

As I said, how many 'good squads' have not won a premiership? How many good squads has Smith had? Fact is, Hagan still got the one over the line in 2001. Fact is, Hagan had a poor squad last season and got the spoon. Injuries to star players helping along the way to achieve that.

Who's to say that team wouldn't have won in 2001 if Hagan wasn't coach? Something that can never be answered. Just like the question of will Hagan be successful at Parramatta. I'm prepared to give him a go at least without bagging him before he even arrives.

 

[Eelementary]

Eelamentary, I find it difficult to believe you are so negative relating to Hagan, I am in Newcastle on business every week, and the players up there have nothing but praise for him.
In 2004 he did very well withput Johns and a fair number of other players, and even last year once he got some payers back not only Johns , but Newton, Gidley, in particular they won games with a fair number on nobodys and P/L players. Look he may not be what everyone wants, but don't believe all the Knights fans and wouldn't we want to hire a coach with a premiership and SOO experience.
If it is Hagan , support him likewise JT, Murray or whoever, look forward , it's exciting and who knows where the journey will lead us

I'm negative because I don't see anyhting special in him.

He'll do exactly what he did with Newcastle - in his first year after inheriting a team, he'll win the title.

And then grind us down to nothing. Just like he's done with Newcastle.

Since 2001 he's done nothing with Newcastle - except win a Spoon.

Way forward? No, I'm personally not sure it is.

 

[Eelementary]

:lol: :lol: - mate it wasn't theoretical - it was physical, emotional, mental, you name it - they have the throphy to show for it

I'd like to see JT given a go - some young enthusiasm .... but if they pick hagan, so be it.

You know what I meant!

 

[The Colonel]

And then grind us down to nothing. Just like he's done with Newcastle.

Has he? Like I have been arguing, the Knights have been a victim of their own successful junior recruitment and paying top players too much. That is more a problem with the board as opposed to the coach - Hagan can only recruit good players if the money is there. They are in a similar predicament that the Eels were in after 1986.........

 

[Eelementary]

That's true.

I just don't like HIM.

Every time I've seen one of his post-match interviews, all I hear is, "Wah! Wah! Wah!" when they lose and, "Joey this, Joey that, Bedsy, Joey Joey," when they win.

Hate him or love, Brian had a certain presence when being interviewed - he never obviously whinged (he did so with much subtlety) and always came across as an intelligent, composed gentleman. Hagan, to me, did not.

I just don't see why we'd be chasing him...OK, he's won a title and coached Origin. But other than that, what?

In 2002 they made the Finals - as did we. In 2003, they made the Finals - we didn't. in 2004, they made the Finals - we didn't. In 2005 we finished Minor Premiers and one match away from a Grand Final berth, and they won the Spoon. Adding all that up and I dare say that, although we miseed out twice, overall we still had a more succesfull post-2001 time.

To me, that's what matters - how did he back up his 2001 title? By making the Finals a few times but never really threatening to win it again and winning a Spoon. Their best chance to make and win the Grand Final again was in 2002 but they blew it.

I'm concerned that the very same issues that haunt us currently - not being able to get over the final hurdle - will persist with Michael Hagan.

 

[PB]

It is not so much that i dislike the guy (although he was a bulldog in the 80's which may contribute to some dislike for him) and he is a bit of a whinger...

My gripe is more with why he is being brought in ahead of JT and Sharpie.

a) JT and Sharp know the players, the players know them, they all know what the expectation levels of each other are. There is littl eor no disruption to the club with this change.

B) We spend time and money bringing these guys to the club, developing them, they do nothing wrong (ie JT serves us brialliantly as a player for a year, then goes on to coach teams to lower grade premierships) and Sharpie (who we punt once, he comes back, completely re-vamps our defence to the best in the league) and what do they get for it?! A smack in the face. If i were in their shoes, doing everything asked of me, and then get over looked for a promotion, i can't begin to think what i would do...Its just bad business, not to mention potentially bad for morale.

 

[The Colonel]

a) JT and Sharp know the players, the players know them, they all know what the expectation levels of each other are. There is littl eor no disruption to the club with this change.

B) We spend time and money bringing these guys to the club, developing them, they do nothing wrong (ie JT serves us brialliantly as a player for a year, then goes on to coach teams to lower grade premierships) and Sharpie (who we punt once, he comes back, completely re-vamps our defence to the best in the league) and what do they get for it?! A smack in the face. If i were in their shoes, doing everything asked of me, and then get over looked for a promotion, i can't begin to think what i would do...Its just bad business, not to mention potentially bad for morale.

Familiarity can breed contempt and a change in ideas could be enough to generate what has been missing in the past. While Taylor and Sharp have done a great job the continuation of what has already been put in place may not necessarily be the right option to take. By placing some new ideas in an already successful situation may well be......

 

[stiffmeister]

All you people who are against Hagan before he even arrives, your warm milk & freshly baked cookies are ready. Also your baby dummies are ready, they have been soaked in water. Hagan won't bring the club to the ground, you'd have to be a complete brainless moron to do that with the facilities & juniors Parra have.

The board has chosen Hagan over JT, accept this fact & start backing Hagan. If we're lucky & we have 3 good years under him, I hope they extend it for another two. Five years will be long enough for a coach in a club.

Don't you Aussies always say, 'give him a go'. Well?, give Hagan a go

 

[fish eel]

It is not so much that i dislike the guy (although he was a bulldog in the 80's which may contribute to some dislike for him) and he is a bit of a whinger...

My gripe is more with why he is being brought in ahead of JT and Sharpie.

a) JT and Sharp know the players, the players know them, they all know what the expectation levels of each other are. There is littl eor no disruption to the club with this change.

Change doesnt have to be a bad thing.

B) We spend time and money bringing these guys to the club, developing them, they do nothing wrong (ie JT serves us brialliantly as a player for a year, then goes on to coach teams to lower grade premierships) and Sharpie (who we punt once, he comes back, completely re-vamps our defence to the best in the league) and what do they get for it?! A smack in the face. If i were in their shoes, doing everything asked of me, and then get over looked for a promotion, i can't begin to think what i would do...Its just bad business, not to mention potentially bad for morale.

Dont feel too sorry for them. They do get paid after all. It is their job. And I didnt think we punted Peter Sharp, didnt he leave us to coach Moanly?

 

[ParraDude_Jay]

All you people who are against Hagan before he even arrives, your warm milk & freshly baked cookies are ready. Also your baby dummies are ready, they have been soaked in water. Hagan won't bring the club to the ground, you'd have to be a complete brainless moron to do that with the facilities & juniors Parra have.

*Offers you a clue, but knows you're much happier not having one*

Gee, those facilities and juniors did a load of good in 2004 when we narrowly missed the spoon didn't they?!

Look at Hagan's record; 2001: Premiership, 2002: Choked in the GF qualifier, 2003: Smashed in week 1 of the finals, 2004: Couldn't make the finals, 2005: Wooden spoon!!

Dare I move on to Origin? The two games he's won there were flukes. The first came from a miracle Slater try (which he was offside in scoring anyway) and the second from an intercept try in golden point. And in the 3rd game of the two years, he's been embarassed.

He has brought down every team he's coached, as I said. So what do you (& Fitzy) see in him?

 

[fish eel]

*Offers you a clue, but knows you're much happier not having one*

Gee, those facilities and juniors did a load of good in 2004 when we narrowly missed the spoon didn't they?!

Look at Hagan's record; 2001: Premiership, 2002: Choked in the GF qualifier, 2003: Smashed in week 1 of the finals, 2004: Couldn't make the finals, 2005: Wooden spoon!!

Dare I move on to Origin? The two games he's won there were flukes. The first came from a miracle Slater try (which he was offside in scoring anyway) and the second from an intercept try in golden point. And in the 3rd game of the two years, he's been embarassed.

He has brought down every team he's coached, as I said. So what do you (& Fitzy) see in him?

Only one team can win origin, so its pretty tough to blame him for losing that or say he cant coach because he didnt coach qld to victory against NSW. Look at those sides on paper as well, especially the backlines and tell me Qld should have won.

Also, Jack Gibson coached NSW to a 0-3 series result. Guess he brought them down, right?

All Stiff is saying is give the guy a chance. He looks like coming here as our coach, so like it or not, you've gotta deal with it.

And Hagan has one thing Brian Smith doesnt have. A premiership.

 

[ParraDude_Jay]

Only one team can win origin, so its pretty tough to blame him for losing that or say he cant coach because he didnt coach qld to victory against NSW. Look at those sides on paper as well, especially the backlines and tell me Qld should have won.

If Hagan won even one of those series', everyone would be saying "Well he's won an Origin series, blah blah blah" etc. but I'm not allowed to point out the losses? The 3rd games of 2004/05 we're pathetic displays from QLD, absolutely pathetic. And the teams they put on the park looked great on paper, so who else can you blame?

All Stiff is saying is give the guy a chance. He looks like coming here as our coach, so like it or not, you've gotta deal with it.

Of course I'll give him a chance if he does sign, and I'm sure everyone else who doesn't like him will too. But I don't want him here in the first place, there are better options both within the club and at other clubs too.

And Hagan has one thing Brian Smith doesnt have. A premiership.

Well, he can thank Warren Ryan for that one can't he? Everyone brings up that one premiership but ignores all his failures. Open your eyes people.