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Big News - 6 about to be dropped

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,625
Really though, if they went out till 3am, drank energy drinks, were well-behaved and turned up on time to work, is there a problem here?

Well let's say it was the best case scenario (although as Crane says they were late).

Paid employees turn in a shocking performance which is completely their fault.

Then the night before the retrospective meeting, a bunch of the boys stayed out late, screwed around taking selfies and goofing off, cruise on in the next morning, late, probably with cheese eating grins showing off their snapchats.

If I pulled that shit in my organisation, I shouldn't be surprised if management is pissed.

As it is with so many of these things, it's not particularly harmful or serious. Its just goofy, stupid shit which reeks of unprofessionalism and pisses off fans and coaches alike. Look at Manu at the movies, the airport photobombs in jandals, clowning around at training, the Wendys ads, coming back fat in the pre-season, it just seems like a very relaxed and silly organisation. Useless if you can't perform on the park.

We'll never make the NRL playoffs until it's sorted, maybe this is the beginning.
 

Penrose_11

Juniors
Messages
1,266
Don't get me wrong as I want the Warriors to get the win but .....

What happens tomorrow if the the team McFadden had put out gets beaten or worse, gets flogged?? He couldn't coach his top 17 to any consistency, so if they don't perform, how does he turn up for work come Monday with any confidence he can drag the team out of the hole they're in.

I know the coach doesnt miss the tackles and doesn't drop the ball etc etc, but it is the coach who sets the game plan, who decides on defensive structure, who picks the playing 17, decides on bench make-up and bench rotation. It's the coach who teaches tackle technique, who makes sure all 17 players know their role for all 80 minutes of every game and who lives and dies by the sword.

Just like a poor tradesman shouldn't blame the tools. A poor coach can't keep blaming the players. It all starts at the top!! The stance dropping the 6 players seems justified but by now the rot had well and truely set in.
 
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jaseg

Juniors
Messages
2,274
TBH I've already lost interest. Just clear house - players with multiple infractions, coach as well (have to do both I think, it's not one or the other - dual causation). Bring in a coach with a decent background and build a team around a few flair players (Johnson primarily) that will work hard and defend their bloody line.

Pita Godinet might be making his Manly debut tonight if Koroisau doesn't pass a last-minute fitness test (should be getting confirmation either way any minute now). Might watch that game.
 

Dr Crane

Live Update Team
Messages
19,531
Well let's say it was the best case scenario (although as Crane says they were late).

Paid employees turn in a shocking performance which is completely their fault.

Then the night before the retrospective meeting, a bunch of the boys stayed out late, screwed around taking selfies and goofing off, cruise on in the next morning, late, probably with cheese eating grins showing off their snapchats.

If I pulled that shit in my organisation, I shouldn't be surprised if management is pissed.

Bingo.

If I had a seriously bad day at the office, then went out and screwed up my sleep pattern and turned up late the next day I'd be in a world of trouble. I've lost one job for basically that (but I was young and my biggest mistake was turning up sober to that job anyway).
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,737
Well let's say it was the best case scenario (although as Crane says they were late).

Paid employees turn in a shocking performance which is completely their fault.

Then the night before the retrospective meeting, a bunch of the boys stayed out late, screwed around taking selfies and goofing off, cruise on in the next morning, late, probably with cheese eating grins showing off their snapchats.

If I pulled that shit in my organisation, I shouldn't be surprised if management is pissed.

As it is with so many of these things, it's not particularly harmful or serious. Its just goofy, stupid shit which reeks of unprofessionalism and pisses off fans and coaches alike. Look at Manu at the movies, the airport photobombs in jandals, clowning around at training, the Wendys ads, coming back fat in the pre-season, it just seems like a very relaxed and silly organisation. Useless if you can't perform on the park.

We'll never make the NRL playoffs until it's sorted, maybe this is the beginning.

There's an attitude problem, no doubt

But (and I remember us having this conversation when Manu and Konnie went to Ginuwine) I'm not sure the club has rule over their private lives, providing they are being law-abiding citizens. Sure, if they turn up late, come down hard...but for the ones that didn't, is the case that strong?
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,737
Bingo.

If I had a seriously bad day at the office, then went out and screwed up my sleep pattern and turned up late the next day I'd be in a world of trouble. I've lost one job for basically that (but I was young and my biggest mistake was turning up sober to that job anyway).

Again, what about if you screwed up your sleep pattern etc but turned up on time the next day....but the boss knew you'd been out late.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,737
There are other ways to screw up your sleep pattern btw- like staying in and playing video games, making a baby, or having a baby...
 

Dr Crane

Live Update Team
Messages
19,531
Again, what about if you screwed up your sleep pattern etc but turned up on time the next day....but the boss knew you'd been out late.

Depends on if their sleep pattern is part of their fitness regime. I'd be staggered if it wasn't in some way given we have to deal with timezones for practically every away match.

Even if it isn't managed they're setting themselves up for a degraded performance.
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,922
The club basically owns the players.
The club determines what they eat.. when they sleep etc etc..
The club says what promo stuff is done and what they say to the media..
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,720
Really though, if they went out till 3am, drank energy drinks, were well-behaved and turned up on time to work, is there a problem here?

Let's not blow this too far out of proportion

We don't know what happened - clearly McFadden and Doyle think there's more to it than that.

I'm over it, they'll either be good or awful this week - to be honest aside from the likes of Mannering, Hoffman, Lillyman, Leuluai , RTS,Ayshford, Kata and a few others I think there's f**k all character at this club, and the culture is f**ked - as many ere have said Doyle needs to clear the decks - work out who is worth keeping and flush the dunny on the rest - we'll be shit for a few years, but we will be anyway if nothing changes
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,737
Yeah that's right JJ- we don't know the whole story and we have to trust that McFadden, Doyle etc do and have made the right decision etc etc

I am ok with that. I appreciate setting high standards and holding players accountable when they don't meet them. It's a fine line though.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,720
Whether or not they've made the right decision, clearly they feel a statement needed to be made and for better or worse they've done that - does suggest something is fundamentally wrong
 
Messages
11,293
Long, long, LONG bow to blame the media. And trust me, I'm happy to blame them any time.

TV1 reported Ben and Manu were training with the NSW Cup side. Good reporting and factual news. Then on the back of 5 players being dropped, plus the other bum, the media reported that. Again, fact. They missed a meeting, that's club protocol. I would also suggest that sleep patterns are vital to the on-field success of our team. So being out at 2am whatever, drinking or not, is compromising performance.

So the club and the players themselves created this. The media merely reported it which is their job to inform you and I. I have read nothing hysterical, and I read and watch a lot. The public have responded as well, and that's our right to be mad.

i know what ur saying bro
im not trying to make excuses but they didnt miss the meeting, they were late. regardless they should of been there.

they played at 7pm

game finishes, media, showers back to the hotel id say by 11

wind down possible sleep by 2

i say 2 cos i remeber reading sometimes after origin the players are so pumped that they dont even sleep after games and are awake right through the night

recovery at 7 then breakfast

midday flight back to NZ

then the 6 played poker then went to the viaduct.

home at 3am

point im making is sleep is all over the place with playing on sunday night. they should have followed proticol of course but the media had blown this way out of whack
 
Messages
17,770
I prefer a high standard to be set and kept.
It now sets a high level of expectation and is about changing the culture of the club. Let's hope it is kept up.

We all know, well we should that sleep is import in fitness and recovery, 7 hours should be the minimum aim.
They probably all have wearable technology to track sleep and probably location, these are meant to be high performance athletes.
So even the baby makers would be caught out missing sleep.
If ones with babies crying in night, might have to say " sorry babe, can't get up to baby, club policy!" :) (side note: could of caused Foran's issue?)
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,762
Something still doesn't sound right.
For nearly half your team to go AWOL together something has to be seriously wrong.
For Doyle to impose a media ban and hush things up is only going to raise more questions than it answers.

Worst case we lose all the players and keep Cappy.
That will be real progress.
 

Skinner

Coach
Messages
13,581
Something still doesn't sound right.
For nearly half your team to go AWOL together something has to be seriously wrong.
For Doyle to impose a media ban and hush things up is only going to raise more questions than it answers.

Worst case we lose all the players and keep Cappy.
That will be real progress.
I think you are bang on Rich. This whole thing is smelling very badly. We may never know the full story though.
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,762
Witness accounts indicate stood down NZ Warriors players may not have been as rowdy as their subsequent punishments might suggest.

Six players - Manu Vatuvei, Ben Matulino, Bodene Thompson, Konrad Hurrell, Sam Lisone and Albert Vete - were dropped to the reserve grade side after heading out in central Auckland on Tuesday night after the team arrived home following their 42-0 thrashing from the Melbourne Storm on Monday.

Some of the players were late to a meeting on Wednesday, leading the club to investigate.

The players ended their night at Irish pub Danny Doolans in Auckland's viaduct, a venue where many nights on the town end up, known for a raging dance floor and live music seven nights a week.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league...ors-players-were-quiet-drinking-energy-drinks
 

Dr Crane

Live Update Team
Messages
19,531
Complete and utter bullshit to blame the media for this blowing up.

There wasn't a word from the media (I daresay they didn't even know anyone had been out) until the Warriors came out and announced the players were being dropped.

The punishment was already decided - there was no trial by media.
 

Big Marn

Bench
Messages
2,969
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11631672

Paul Lewis: Sack the players, not the coach


That's it. That'll fix the Warriors. Fire the coach.

Let me see (gets abacus out, clicks beads), that would make six coaches in the last four years - some sort of record, surely.

Two years ago after Andrew McFadden came into the job, I wrote a column expressing some surprise he'd been given a four-year contract. "Pre-change, the Warriors were a befuddled, miserable sight at risk of permanently alienating their fan base," I wrote. "Post-change, they look competitive and a helpful draw could see them make the finals. McFadden seems to have player support in a way deposed coach Matt Elliott never did."

Oh dear. This isn't just history repeating itself, this is history vomiting on our jandals. Once again, they are at risk of permanently alienating fans after some lousy performances. Once again, the sword is poised close to the coach's sternum. It'll take only a nudge to plunge McFadden onto it - like six players who should know better going out on the ran-tan and then turning up late to a team meeting - while the club (which has form in this regard) composes a press release making it clear he fell.



I'm not sure I have ever known Warriors fans - a loyal lot - to be turning off their team as much as they are now. That 42-0 thrashing by the Storm was a watershed. Fans like the wag who rang Radio Sport and said: "We were right in that game... and then they kicked off" are rare. There is genuine anger now and a credibility gap. Hell, a credibility canyon.

We've heard it all before. Players stoically front the media when they have a reverse. There have been so many reverses, we're not quite sure which way is forwards any more, like the old joke about Italian tanks in WWII. We can't possibly endure another interview where the player on the media roster says they have to take a darned good look at themselves. Clearly, all this looking at yourself makes things difficult to see.

The platitudes seem more insincere each time. They remind me of working in Britain on a provincial newspaper which once ran a story about a man claiming to be able to communicate with hedgehogs. The intro read: "A Hampshire man says he has found the way to talk to hedgehogs - though he doesn't know what he says to them."

McFadden must feel a little the same after Manu Vatuvei, Ben Matulino, Bodene Thompson, Albert Vete, Sam Lisone and Konrad Hurrell all went out on the lash until 3am on Wednesday - a day after Melbourne forced them to take a darned good look at themselves. What they saw must have stimulated them to start a new fitness crusade, beginning with toning their throat muscles by marinating them in the benevolent moisture of the hop.
There are only two ways to interpret their night out: either McFadden has lost the dressing room and the players are out to get him sacked or they were just being young men needing a release after a shattering defeat.

It's hard to explain the presence of Vatuvei and Matulino other than with the first option. It's led to the predictable clamour for McFadden's head - and it's a good way to shift the focus from under-performing players. Only one man, pay the contract out and get a new bloke. It's a short-term fix. Under a fresh coach, history shows the team briefly right themselves and give fans hope before the wheels fall off again.

Under owner Eric Watson, the club have been far too good at talking up a storm while delivering an isolated shower. The management, over recent years, has set the tone and many think the current players are content to take the money, enjoy the status and do just enough to justify asking fans to buy yet another replica jersey. It's hard to believe of a supposedly professional outfit but that's where things have led us.

New skipper Ryan Hoffman looks a haunted man who opened the door expecting to find a rugby league club but found himself in a comedy festival where all the jokes are about Australians and none are funny. Managing director Jim Doyle is a smart, committed man and my guess is he'll try to keep McFadden, who looks the same sort of reasonable, competent figure as Ivan Cleary who had the best record of any Warriors coach before the previous management (you guessed it) let him go.

This time, the best idea might be to keep the coach and get rid of players. The club have long looked like they need a clean-out. It will need Watson's chequebook and Doyle and McFadden to oversee consistency and communicate with fans progress towards building a team with a professional culture - even if that means a season or two of losses as they integrate new, experienced players with promising youngsters and try to build something more permanent.

The club have been on the coach merry-go-round before. Hasn't worked. The key man will be Watson. If he doesn't stump up the cash to get rid of some of the unwanted and to buy in the wanted, this scenario may not work.

If you see McFadden out at Mt Smart, attempting to talk to the hedgehogs, you'll know what's happened...





sums it up pretty well but has a little more faith in cappy than i do
 
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