Brisbane Tigers make their bid to be 18th team

[Bukowski]

I'm not against expansion per se.

I'm against the argument that we must limit Brisbane to just two teams so we can expand into Adelaide and Perth.

The fact remains that three teams from Brisbane will provide more monetary value to the NRL than teams from Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth.

Facts over feelings.

50k tickets sold at Lang Park last week.

19k tickets sold at MRS last night.

That's a difference of 31k.

Another 50k tickets to be sold at Lang Park next week.

Mt Smart looks great with a vocal sell out crowd.

ARLC keeps all proceedings from game day during the finals. Brisbane and Auckland providing great monetary value towards the ARLC. A strong case for Brisbane 3 and NZ2 as the next team.

Sounds like all SOO games should be in Sydney as they will get an extra 30k crowd.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

given neither club has produced financial reports you can’t possibly know this. Dolphins benefitted enormously from fans of other clubs attending their home games at Suncorp, a benefit Storm don’t have. not to mention as ARL heartland club they bloody well,should have bigger crowds!

It was reported earlier in the year, possibly last year, that the Dolphins are generating more than $10m from sponsorship. They have a good deal with Kingz and the Moreton Bay Regional Council.

A lot of Sydneysiders have immigrated to SEQ. It's another reason to add a third team in Brisbane. It'll provide NSWRL fans living in SEQ with more opportunities to see their team play at Lang Park.

 

[MugaB]

Why would the magpies be torn apart?

which part of the joint venture has the large debt and which part has the league clubs?

The fans wont follow the magpies, theyd be a very select percentage that would be ok with it but theres been generations that have already grown up as tigers fans, especially from seeing the 05 GF, theyve already got the shits with the board as it is now with no finals in over a decade, plus 2 wooden spoons in a row, you want to see them riot that theyll be effectively reverted back to being the magpies? Please!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Did you miss last month when 45k people, turned up for 4 out of town teams in perth? You dont think we’d get 30k plus at optus for our own team?

regardless of where a club comes from they will draw from the existing pool of players and jnrs from mostly nsw and qlnd for the first ten years. That’s the reality of having a sport that’s only popular in two states.

Those two states represent 55% of Australia's population and also contain 7 of the top 10 population centres in Australia (including Canberra/ ACT). Then throw in Auckland on top of that and we have a very healthy following hence the TV ratings smashing we just handed the AFL

 

[titoelcolombiano]

"I'm not against expanding the Telstra Premiership. I'm just against expanding the sport to new markets and think the NRL should exist as a glorified merger of the NSWRL and BRL."

"The law of diminishing returns? Never heard of the f**ker!"

When your diminished return still averages the 2nd best crowds, memberships and sponsorships in the comp it is worth returning to that well

 

[Perth Red]

It was reported earlier in the year, possibly last year, that the Dolphins are generating more than $10m from sponsorship. They have a good deal with Kingz and the Moreton Bay Regional Council.

A lot of Sydneysiders have immigrated to SEQ. It's another reason to add a third team in Brisbane. It'll provide NSWRL fans living in SEQ with more opportunities to see their team play at Lang Park.

Yeh they came out and said they had the second largest sponsorship, which was BS as a pure guess as no club had produced financials at that time, and still havent so how could they know? Might be true, but there was no evidence for them to make that claim. And are they including sponsors and corporates sales? Devil in these grandiose statements is always in the detail!

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Dolphins success like a dagger to AFL Red's cold, cold heart.

 

[Pneuma]

Dolphins success like a dagger to AFL Red's cold, cold heart.

Careful. He’ll post his library of pro afl statistics here for the 400th time.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Yeh they came out and said they had the second largest sponsorship, which was BS as a pure guess as no club had produced financials at that time, and still havent so how could they know? Might be true, but there was no evidence for them to make that claim. And are they including sponsors and corporates sales? Devil in these grandiose statements is always in the detail!

It would have been a comparison to 2022 financial reports.

 

[Perth Red]

It would have been a comparison to 2022 financial reports.

so they are basing this on 2023 sponsorship for them and 2022 for everyone else, even though you cant actually see some clubs financial details? Yeh ok then. They've no doubt done a great job in sponsorship and may well be second best, but neither they or us know that for a fact. But a good sound bite thats unprovable. Fair play to their CEO lol

What it does show is that for sponsorship big cities are way to go, as long as you dont oversaturate them.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

What it does show is that for sponsorship big cities are way to go, as long as you dont oversaturate them.

How do you explain the Cowboys generating more from sponsorship than the non-Queensland clubs that have publicised their financial statements?

The reason the Cowboys made the cut when the competition was rationalised down to 14 in 2000 was due to their sponsorship being the third best in the late 1990s.

Townsville ain't a big city.

The Storm have never publicised their financial statements. For all we know they might generate some of the lowest sponsorship deals in the NRL. Or they might generate some of the best deals. What we do know is the unique situations that helped the Storm become a behemoth on the field won't be replicated for expansion teams from Adelaide and Perth. It's great the Storm have been successful on the back of $100m worth of handouts from News Ltd and ARLC between 1998 and 2018 -- plus the void created by the removal of the Mariners, Crushers, Chargers and Reds -- but let's not pretend they did it all on their own. Adelaide and Perth will not be gifted these advantages and will struggle like every other expansion club.

 

[mongoose]

How do you explain the Cowboys generating more from sponsorship than the non-Queensland clubs that have publicised their financial statements?

The reason the Cowboys made the cut when the competition was rationalised down to 14 in 2000 was due to their sponsorship being the third best in the late 1990s.

Townsville ain't a big city.

The Storm have never publicised their financial statements. For all we know they might generate some of the lowest sponsorship deals in the NRL. Or they might generate some of the best deals. What we do know is the unique situations that helped the Storm become a behemoth on the field won't be replicated for expansion teams from Adelaide and Perth. It's great the Storm have been successful on the back of $100m worth of handouts from News Ltd and ARLC between 1998 and 2018 -- plus the void created by the removal of the Mariners, Crushers, Chargers and Reds -- but let's not pretend they did it all on their own. Adelaide and Perth will not be gifted these advantages and will struggle like every other expansion club.

100m over 20 years isn't that much for the running costs of an NRL team... The Storm had News, other clubs had Leagues clubs pump millions into them.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

100m over 20 years isn't that much for the running costs of an NRL team... The Storm had News, other clubs had Leagues clubs pump millions into them.

That's not the total cost of running the Storm between 1998-2018.

It's the amount News Ltd and the ARLC had to spend to cover the losses they made from overspending on their football operations.

Long story short, the Storm weren't generating enough revenue from football operations to cover the amount they spent on developing the most successful team in the NRL era. They needed to overspend because the only way they were ever going to make a dent in the Melbourne market was by being overly successful on the field.

Here's what the Sydney Morning Herald said about the situation in 2013:

Storm

The Storm have new owners following the sale by media outlet News Corp. The financial depth of the new owners is unknown, and only time will tell if they can make the highly successful football club a financial success. The Storm has been overspending to the tune of between $2 million and $5 million for 15 years. This shortfall has been financed by News Ltd and the amount spent by the club does not seem to be falling since the salary cap scandal in 2010.

The Storm football club spends about $20 million a year, or about $2-$4 million more than most other clubs except for the wealthy Broncos. The new consortium of owners, led by New Zealander Bart Campbell, are projecting the club will break even in five years, which is a long time to be losing money. The Storm has risen to the top of the competition by overspending; if the club has to curtail its expenses it is very difficult to see the performance on the field continuing, placing greater financial stress on the group.

Moneyball: how is your club placed?

NRL clubs must take not to waste funds from the new billion-dollar broadcast deal.

www.smh.com.au

Some people on here are pushing for a Perth-based team and citing the Storm as the reason they should be brought in. None of them are looking at the full picture.

A Perth-based team will need to overspend to succeed on the field.

The $17m annual grant and game day revenue won't be enough to field a winning team that dominates like the Storm.. The club will probably have to spend upwards of $35-40m per annum, possibly more, to recruit the best juniors from Queensland, New South Wales, Papua New Guinea and New Zealand. The cost of flying these players across the country to play in the Queensland/NSW Cup and underage competitions will be enormous. They'll also be competing against the Melbourne Storm for these players. The armed race it will create between the two clubs could inflate the amount the Storm spends on junior development and potentially jeopardise their financial viability.

The biggest impediment to Perth getting a team isn't Brisbane 3 or Sydney's nine clubs. It's the perilous position of the Melbourne Storm. The game cannot afford to lose the Storm and will always place their welfare ahead of Perth.

 

[The Great Dane]

When your diminished return still averages the 2nd best crowds, memberships and sponsorships in the comp it is worth returning to that well

The Dolphins have totally underachieved by every metric considering the raw potential that existed in Brisbane, and it's only a matter of time before the novelty effect starts to wear off.

People like you will never admit it, but they're symptomatic of everything wrong with the Australian sports industry and particularly RL. They're a backwater suburban club with mid-20th century ideas about how best to operate a business in the sports industry, that're propped up by their gambling business and political corruption instead of their football operations, have proven that they're resistant to changing to market conditions, and are risk averse and accepting of mediocrity.

The NRL (and AFL to a lesser degree as well) takes it's position for granted and has allowed it's self to become stuck in time while it's competitors continue to innovate and the market continues to become increasingly globalised, and that will increasing negatively impact them going forward.

I don't know how you fix the problems the NRL are facing, but it's got to start with the ARLC becoming truly independent (fat chance of that ever happening lol) and some genuine diversity being added into the people that have a say in the running of the sport. The sport cannot continue with exclusively over 50s of a single socioeconomic status who grew up in certain parts of Sydney and Brisbane being the only people who get a real say in the sport and it's direction, as they've proved time and time again that they're completely disconnected from, and totally blind to, anything and anyone outside of their bubble.

 

[The Great Dane]

Now you're talking about things you don't understand.

The bulk of the game's revenue is generated by rugby league fans in Brisbane and Sydney. The only rugby league event that captures the country's attention is the annual Queensland vs NSW series.

No one could give a f**k about watching Canberra Raiders vs Melbourne Storm.

Melbourne Storm just hosted a final in front of thousands of empty seats. A week earlier we had a packed out crowd at Lang Park on a stormy and rainy night.

Which game do you think generated more revenue from gate takings?

The one that had 50k fans at Lang Park, braving the rain and a thunderstorm?

Or the one in Melbourne that had just 19k fans?

Dolphins averaged more to their games than the Storm and generate more from sponsorship, BTW.

Nah, you'd never articulate it that way, but that's your starting position.

Everything else you say, like the irrelevant nonsense in the rest of your post, is just you trying to justify that position.

 

[mongoose]

Those two states represent 55% of Australia's population and also contain 7 of the top 10 population centres in Australia (including Canberra/ ACT). Then throw in Auckland on top of that and we have a very healthy following hence the TV ratings smashing we just handed the AFL

wonderful, go tell sponsors and the broadcaster this so they give us as much as the AFL.

 

[mongoose]

That's not the total cost of running the Storm between 1998-2018.

It's the amount News Ltd and the ARLC had to spend to cover the losses they made from overspending on their football operations.

Long story short, the Storm weren't generating enough revenue from football operations to cover the amount they spent on developing the most successful team in the NRL era. They needed to overspend because the only way they were ever going to make a dent in the Melbourne market was by being overly successful on the field.

Here's what the Sydney Morning Herald said about the situation in 2013:

Storm​

​

The Storm have new owners following the sale by media outlet News Corp. The financial depth of the new owners is unknown, and only time will tell if they can make the highly successful football club a financial success. The Storm has been overspending to the tune of between $2 million and $5 million for 15 years. This shortfall has been financed by News Ltd and the amount spent by the club does not seem to be falling since the salary cap scandal in 2010.​

​

The Storm football club spends about $20 million a year, or about $2-$4 million more than most other clubs except for the wealthy Broncos. The new consortium of owners, led by New Zealander Bart Campbell, are projecting the club will break even in five years, which is a long time to be losing money. The Storm has risen to the top of the competition by overspending; if the club has to curtail its expenses it is very difficult to see the performance on the field continuing, placing greater financial stress on the group.​

​

Moneyball: how is your club placed?

NRL clubs must take not to waste funds from the new billion-dollar broadcast deal.

www.smh.com.au

​

Some people on here are pushing for a Perth-based team and citing the Storm as the reason they should be brought in. None of them are looking at the full picture.

A Perth-based team will need to overspend to succeed on the field.

The $17m annual grant and game day revenue won't be enough to field a winning team that dominates like the Storm.. The club will probably have to spend upwards of $35-40m per annum, possibly more, to recruit the best juniors from Queensland, New South Wales, Papua New Guinea and New Zealand. The cost of flying these players across the country to play in the Queensland/NSW Cup and underage competitions will be enormous. They'll also be competing against the Melbourne Storm for these players. The armed race it will create between the two clubs could inflate the amount the Storm spends on junior development and potentially jeopardise their financial viability.

The biggest impediment to Perth getting a team isn't Brisbane 3 or Sydney's nine clubs. It's the perilous position of the Melbourne Storm. The game cannot afford to lose the Storm and will always place their welfare ahead of Perth.

You understand Brisbane 3 has to compete for players too?, they will be competing against the Broncos, Dolphins, Titans and Storm. There are not 30 ready made NRL players in their feeder team or the QLD cup they can just promote. Look how much trouble the Dolphins had putting together a competitive team, they are just lucky they got Bennet. Fact is whoever comes in as team 18 is going to have challenges, especially finding players. Perth will provide benefits long term but yes the NRL might have to invest a bit into it.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You understand Brisbane 3 has to compete for players too?, they will be competing against the Broncos, Dolphins, Titans and Storm.

That's my point!

Brisbane 3 won't need to be a powerhouse on the field to be financially viable.

Dolphins were bog average for the bulk of the season, yet still managed to average more than the Storm have ever done in a season.

You can bet your arse that the Dolphins generated more revenue from football operations than the Melbourne Storm.

You can also bet your arse that kids from SEQ would rather play for the Brisbane Tigers than a Perth-based team.

Dolphins had putting together a competitive team, they are just lucky they got Bennet.

And they still managed to average more fans to their games in one season than the Storm have ever done in their 25 year history.

Thus proving my point about the Melbourne Storm and prospective teams in Adelaide and Perth.

Fact is whoever comes in as team 18 is going to have challenges, especially finding players.

The Brisbane Tigers have more than enough financial resources and junior pathways to overcome these challenges. Perth doesn't.

Perth will provide benefits long term but yes the NRL might have to invest a bit into it.

The NRL won't invest a cent into a Perth-based team.

 

[Pneuma]

You understand Brisbane 3 has to compete for players too?, they will be competing against the Broncos, Dolphins, Titans and Storm. There are not 30 ready made NRL players in their feeder team or the QLD cup they can just promote. Look how much trouble the Dolphins had putting together a competitive team, they are just lucky they got Bennet. Fact is whoever comes in as team 18 is going to have challenges, especially finding players. Perth will provide benefits long term but yes the NRL might have to invest a bit into it.

Great post wasted on this lad mate

 

[MugaB]

You understand Brisbane 3 has to compete for players too?, they will be competing against the Broncos, Dolphins, Titans and Storm. There are not 30 ready made NRL players in their feeder team or the QLD cup they can just promote. Look how much trouble the Dolphins had putting together a competitive team, they are just lucky they got Bennet. Fact is whoever comes in as team 18 is going to have challenges, especially finding players. Perth will provide benefits long term but yes the NRL might have to invest a bit into it.

You obviously think a new franchise, no matter where the bid is selected from, needs to have 30, 1st grade players to sign up, truth is you probably only need about 10 experienced ones minimum, the rest sit in reserve grade, and fill spots on the bench, or in certain areas of the backline, that you're short of that experience of..
There's plenty of Tyson Gambles and Adam Clune type players out there, dolphins basically recruited a bunch of experienced forwards, and tacked on a few has beens here and there, then plucked out the halves sitting behind nathan cleary. dangling a 1st grade spot.. any new franchise could start this way, they dont have to be world beaters 1st season in either.. just got to make sure the pathways beneath are competitive enough that they'll superseed what youve got there