Combined Brothers bid

[georgesnmith]

they were built a brand new ground.

sydney clubs would die for it. if any sydney clubs had a ground like that nearby to its fan it would be 80% full each week

 

[BuffaloRules]

Their crowd avg last year was higher than six Sydney teams, not sure what you're laughing at?

Not sure if serious?

The Gold Coast crowd numbers are definitely in the fiction section of the library.

They have been the biggest disappointment the NRL has had in the last decade.

 

[joshreading]

I do think the issue of no specific geographical representation is an issue that must be addressed. The Brothers bid does present a different approach but I am not sure much is really gained out of the attachment to the 'Grange Brothers'.

If some sort of merger were made with the Western Corridor Bid basing itself out of somewhere like Ipswich Brothers that guaranteed 8 Brisbane Games and a Toowoomba Game (given the right conditions being met) it would pretty much be an unbeatable bid.

The primary concern with this bid is that although it brings in a wide group of supporters (Brothers Clubs) it could also isolate a huge group of RL fans that have strong connections to others local clubs.

eg. If you play for Rockhampton Tigers and the Brothers come to town (with strong connections to the Rockhampton Brothers) the motivation to support them would be actively negative. That may be fine but it still must be addressed.

Also can other clubs that are not 'brothers' clubs align with the Brothers NRL Club?

 

[oikee]

I do think the issue of no specific geographical representation is an issue that must be addressed. The Brothers bid does present a different approach but I am not sure much is really gained out of the attachment to the 'Grange Brothers'.

If some sort of merger were made with the Western Corridor Bid basing itself out of somewhere like Ipswich Brothers that guaranteed 8 Brisbane Games and a Toowoomba Game (given the right conditions being met) it would pretty much be an unbeatable bid.

The primary concern with this bid is that although it brings in a wide group of supporters (Brothers Clubs) it could also isolate a huge group of RL fans that have strong connections to others local clubs.

eg. If you play for Rockhampton Tigers and the Brothers come to town (with strong connections to the Rockhampton Brothers) the motivation to support them would be actively negative. That may be fine but it still must be addressed.

Also can other clubs that are not 'brothers' clubs align with the Brothers NRL Club?

You can make a argument along those lines for any team, fans have their own clubs to follow, even if your city has no team, the local club is your team.
Brothers has a very old and large following, and the support is massive.
They have 40 clubs around the place. Everyone knows of them or has heard of them from existence now, and during the Brisbane Comp.

To knock back a bid of this potential is like giving away a state full of supporters, madness.
Only a madman would knock this bid back, you need to have a head full of rocks to knock back a team that would have instant success, because every other man dog an his ginger cat outside the Broncos would be falling over themselves to be part of the second Brisbane team, and i think that is what we are all forgetting.

 

[oikee]

With 8 first graders out of action,what did you expect the Shark's to do?Decimate the dogs?

You had been harping on about removing the Sharks,on the Rah for ages Oikee.Nothing has changed.Try to get the Titans up to standard with crowds and even the Cows,before suggesting other Sydney clubs be axed.Typical Qlder not thinking of long time fans .

Look, the Sharkies biggest blockbuster is on today. Give me the size of the crowd toomoorow.
The Sharkies wont ever grow the game to 50 thousand at local derbies, where as Queensland, all the teams are held back by lack of good local derbies.
We need Brisbane to start that rivalry, between the Titans, the Cows, by having another two teams in Brisbane will grow all the crowd averages, not just one team.
I dont know if anyone has thought about this, and is why the Broncos have come to a screaming halt in Crowd growth, because the lack of building the game up with derbies is killing the code. The same as the NZ warriors without that derby are struggling to grow. While the AFL and even soccer is proving, to grow crowds, have a city derby.

Brisbane is poised to grow the game. We need a derby to start that growth.

NZ will keep going backwards if they dont give the warriors some competition.
The players also need that derby factor. I was looking at the amount of games in Sydney, over 100, 200, compared to Brisbane, 12.
That my friend is madness, of the highest order.
The game wont grow until teams are merged or chopped in Sydney, chop the Roosters, put them all in a lucky dip, i don't care, merge or chop so the code can grow. Sydney for all facts and purposes is the one killing the code.

Everything the code is doing is harming it's attendence viewers and clubs averages and cash flow.
Until we can see that to lose 30 thousand, we will be making 300 thousand happy.
I don't know of a company anywhere in the world that would not jump at those figures.

Rugby league had its chance to grow and change last super-league war. We stuffed that up completely and are now paying the price. If we don't do something soon, the other codes will simply be invited to take over.
As we speak the aFL has put roots into a 4 pillar Brisbane grass-roots stadium and club set-up. And these codes know our weakness and are exploiting our weak leadership, as in keeping struggling clubs afloat, until they are the death of our code,
Good luck with that and i will keep asking for two teams in Sydney to go for the sake of growing expanding the game.

 

[taipan]

Look, the Sharkies biggest blockbuster is on today. Give me the size of the crowd toomoorow.
The Sharkies wont ever grow the game to 50 thousand at local derbies, where as Queensland, all the teams are held back by lack of good local derbies.
We need Brisbane to start that rivalry, between the Titans, the Cows, by having another two teams in Brisbane will grow all the crowd averages, not just one team.
I dont know if anyone has thought about this, and is why the Broncos have come to a screaming halt in Crowd growth, because the lack of building the game up with derbies is killing the code. The same as the NZ warriors without that derby are struggling to grow. While the AFL and even soccer is proving, to grow crowds, have a city derby.

Brisbane is poised to grow the game. We need a derby to start that growth.

NZ will keep going backwards if they dont give the warriors some competition.
The players also need that derby factor. I was looking at the amount of games in Sydney, over 100, 200, compared to Brisbane, 12.
That my friend is madness, of the highest order.
The game wont grow until teams are merged or chopped in Sydney, chop the Roosters, put them all in a lucky dip, i don't care, merge or chop so the code can grow. Sydney for all facts and purposes is the one killing the code.

Everything the code is doing is harming it's attendence viewers and clubs averages and cash flow.
Until we can see that to lose 30 thousand, we will be making 300 thousand happy.
I don't know of a company anywhere in the world that would not jump at those figures.

Rugby league had its chance to grow and change last super-league war. We stuffed that up completely and are now paying the price. If we don't do something soon, the other codes will simply be invited to take over.
As we speak the aFL has put roots into a 4 pillar Brisbane grass-roots stadium and club set-up. And these codes know our weakness and are exploiting our weak leadership, as in keeping struggling clubs afloat, until they are the death of our code,
Good luck with that and i will keep asking for two teams in Sydney to go for the sake of growing expanding the game.

You cant sell out the cows games for the Broncos,and get nowhere near full house for the Titans.
The Broncos cant even crack 30,000 members,and they have the whole city to themselves.And they play fortnightly.:crazy:
The Sharks will get bigger crowds with higher profile teams starting tonight.When they played the tits on Monday night (a lousy time) they got 9,200 odd.The Tits brought no one.The Cows bring next to no one and the Broncos a few more.
You push Sydney teams away,you lose at least 10,000 regulars and many thousand of fans who live outside the shire.And guess what you lose those fans and many go to other codes try AFL as happened when the Bears were flicked.
Get back to us when the bronocs/Cows/Titans are near filling their stadiums.

Start thinking about the whole picture ,and not blindly follow the SL formula that stuffed the code for years.

 

[RUG13Y]

How about you consider TV ratings as well as mere crowds. Crowds for a 2nd brisbane would be strong and leave Sydney crowds for dead. NRL needs more strong TV content from QLD.

 

[taipan]

How about you consider TV ratings as well as mere crowds. Crowds for a 2nd brisbane would be strong and leave Sydney crowds for dead. NRL needs more strong TV content from QLD.

All I am arguing is the notion that crowds for games are not the be all and end all.Of course Tv ratings are important.And so are Sydney clubs who have built up tribalism and tradition for nearly 50 years.

The push for moving Sydney clubs,in the main comes from Queenslanders,perhaps they need to get close to the action.

 

[RUG13Y]

No true queenslander would advocate for a transplanted Sydney club. New club or traditional BRL club or nothing in my humble opionion.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Most of us here want another Brisbane team.

But not at the expense of one of he existing Sydney teams.

As others have said, if you punt or move Sydney teams like Manly, Cronulla or Wests, you are just inviting the other codes to come into that vacated area.

As I have said before, no Sydney teams are going as bad as the Gold Coast or Canberra..

 

[georgesnmith]

at the moment sydney gets double the number of viewers than brisbane does

so basically 2/3rd of the value of the tv contract comes from sydney viewers alone

sydney has already had too many clubs culled theres no point making the area where rugby league is strongest any weaker

and sydney is the place rugby league is strongest on this planet.

sorry if the truth hurts

the NRL evolved from the sydney club competition, without sydney the comp is meaningless.

 

[Perth Red]

Most of us here want another Brisbane team.

But not at the expense of one of he existing Sydney teams.

As others have said, if you punt or move Sydney teams like Manly, Cronulla or Wests, you are just inviting the other codes to come into that vacated area.

As I have said before, no Sydney teams are going as bad as the Gold Coast or Canberra..

I really don't get this argument. What makes you think the afl or RU or soccer can take over an area without putting a club there but RL can't hold a historic RL area unless it has a club there?

I can understand we might lose disgruntled fans of that club but as long as there is strong jnr clubs, schools RL and other clubs fill the void left then impact is likely minimal, especially long term. The next generation will grow up as fans of clubs that do exist. Hence the argument re over saturation. I hope we don't need to lose clubs but I can also see nine teams in one city is always going to be a struggle, especially in Sydney where RL does not seem as popular as afl in melbourne.

 

[Perth Red]

at the moment sydney gets double the number of viewers than brisbane does

so basically 2/3rd of the value of the tv contract comes from sydney viewers alone

sydney has already had too many clubs culled theres no point making the area where rugby league is strongest any weaker

and sydney is the place rugby league is strongest on this planet.

sorry if the truth hurts

the NRL evolved from the sydney club competition, without sydney the comp is meaningless.

A) no one is suggesting it isn't
B) no one is suggesting not having ANY sydney clubs in the NRL!
C) clubs have already been culled/merged in Sydney and the game has more fans and viewers than ever in Sydney
D) Some Sydney clubs have major problems. If this is due to poor management or over saturation is hard to say. Not surprisingly the clubs that have embraced a city wide appeal are doing best, the small suburban brand/mentality clubs are doing it tough.

 

[The Great Dane]

Most of us here want another Brisbane team.

But not at the expense of one of he existing Sydney teams.

As others have said, if you punt or move Sydney teams like Manly, Cronulla or Wests, you are just inviting the other codes to come into that vacated area.

As I have said before, no Sydney teams are going as bad as the Gold Coast or Canberra..

The only things we lag behind in at the moment are attendance and membership numbers, and both are easily connected to 20 years of mediocrity, an incredibly fickle fan base and our main competitor for casual fans having lots of success in that same time.

And at least we carry our own weight and don't stick our handout to the NRL every few years or so.

Tell me why the Tigers, Sharks, Manly, Dragons, remind me of the others I'm forgetting, are all seriously struggling in their own ways, when they call the great bastion of RL that is Sydney home...

No club should ever be considered bigger or more important then the competition or the game it's self, and right now the clubs in Sydney are being treated differently simply because of their age and because supposedly their fans love the colour of their teams jersey more then the sport it's self.

And we spend hours wondering why this sport isn't all it could be in this country.

 

[The Great Dane]

I really don't get this argument. What makes you think the afl or RU or soccer can take over an area without putting a club there but RL can't hold a historic RL area unless it has a club there?

I can understand we might lose disgruntled fans of that club but as long as there is strong jnr clubs, schools RL and other clubs fill the void left then impact is likely minimal, especially long term. The next generation will grow up as fans of clubs that do exist. Hence the argument re over saturation. I hope we don't need to lose clubs but I can also see nine teams in one city is always going to be a struggle, especially in Sydney where RL does not seem as popular as afl in melbourne.

Couldn't have put it better myself, short term pain for long term gain.

 

[BuffaloRules]

I really don't get this argument. What makes you think the afl or RU or soccer can take over an area without putting a club there but RL can't hold a historic RL area unless it has a club there?

I can understand we might lose disgruntled fans of that club but as long as there is strong jnr clubs, schools RL and other clubs fill the void left then impact is likely minimal, especially long term. The next generation will grow up as fans of clubs that do exist. Hence the argument re over saturation. I hope we don't need to lose clubs but I can also see nine teams in one city is always going to be a struggle, especially in Sydney where RL does not seem as popular as afl in melbourne.

Isn't it common sense that the other codes would like to capitalise on the upheaval created in an area that has just had their decades old team removed from the NRL competition?

It has happened before with North Shore. The AFL targeted the area following the Bears demise, and a decade later it is the strongest area in the city for the game.


If I was soccer I would definitely be putting a team into Southern Sydney playing games out of Remondis should the Sharks fail.They might do it anyway.

 

[BuffaloRules]

The only things we lag behind in at the moment are attendance and membership numbers, and both are easily connected to 20 years of mediocrity, an incredibly fickle fan base and our main competitor for casual fans having lots of success in that same time.

And at least we carry our own weight and don't stick our handout to the NRL every few years or so.

Tell me why the Tigers, Sharks, Manly, Dragons, remind me of the others I'm forgetting, are all seriously struggling in their own ways, when they call the great bastion of RL that is Sydney home...

No club should ever be considered bigger or more important then the competition or the game it's self, and right now the clubs in Sydney are being treated differently simply because of their age and because supposedly their fans love the colour of their teams jersey more then the sport it's self.

And we spend hours wondering why this sport isn't all it could be in this country.

Canberra gets the lowest crowds year after year. They seem to have immense difficulties retaining their talented juniors or attracting new talent. After 20 years of mediocrity on the field, do you think change appears likely in the near future?

You talk about short term pain for long term pain, but where is the gain after 30 years?

Look, someone has got to get the lowest crowds every year, and I don't have anything against Canberra personally.

I just find it incredibly frustrating that all the criticism from outsiders is always about the Sydney clubs, and how they have to be cut, yet I honestly think they all offer more at the moment than some clubs located outside Sydney which are never criticised by these detractors.

 

[RUG13Y]

Talk of no NRL team in Canberra is ridiculous.

 

[Desert Qlder]

Worthy discussion, but take it elsewhere.

 

[The Great Dane]

Isn't it common sense that the other codes would like to capitalise on the upheaval created in an area that has just had their decades old team removed from the NRL competition?

It has happened before with North Shore. The AFL targeted the area following the Bears demise, and a decade later it is the strongest area in the city for the game.


If I was soccer I would definitely be putting a team into Southern Sydney playing games out of Remondis should the Sharks fail.They might do it anyway.

The problem with that argument is that once the Northern Eagles failed Manly abandoned the North Shore and nobody came in to fill the void.

There are generations of would be RL fans in North Sydney that may have chosen to support RL that didn't not because the Bears were dropped from the NRL, but because none of the other clubs could be bothered to capitalize on the Bears misfortune and the Waratahs and Swans did capitalize on the Bears misfortune.

Had any of the other NRL teams (particularly Manly) had built a presence in North Sydney then it'd probably still be a relatively strong RL area right now.

Canberra gets the lowest crowds year after year. They seem to have immense difficulties retaining their talented juniors or attracting new talent. After 20 years of mediocrity on the field, do you think change appears likely in the near future?

All of these are symptoms of 20 years of mediocrity, a relatively small and extremely fickle fan base and an extreme lack of publicity in the RL media. All of these things naturally fluctuate with time.

Also whether or not a club should be removed from the competition should never be assessed on their on field success!

You can be the worst club on the field and still be one of the most successful off it, and vice versa (which by the way the Raiders are a fairly good example of).

You talk about short term pain for long term pain, but where is the gain after 30 years?

My comments before don't really apply to Canberra because we weren't a relocation/replacement club, but I'll bite anyway.

After 30 years RL has basically gained a 50-65% market share for winter sports in the capital of the nation, maintained a large and steadily growing fan base in the ACT and Southern NSW (obviously not all Raiders fans, but the Raiders are directly connected to sustaining this fan base), we've built a sustainable and relatively successful club and almost shut the AFL out of any significant share in this market for the next 50+ years.

We've also created a nationally recognized and relatively valuable brand, gained access to and since dominated the junior sports landscape of Southern NSW creating pathways for kids into elite sport that are now invaluable and irreplaceable and most of all we cost next to nothing for the NRL for all these benefits.

Look, someone has got to get the lowest crowds every year, and I don't have anything against Canberra personally.

I just find it incredibly frustrating that all the criticism from outsiders is always about the Sydney clubs, and how they have to be cut, yet I honestly think they all offer more at the moment than some clubs located outside Sydney which are never criticised by these detractors.

That's fair enough, but whichever way you look at it at the moment the clubs that are causing problems for the competition, and that we have an over abundance of are not outside of Sydney.

The Sydney market is heavily over saturated and many (if not most) of the clubs in Sydney are struggling while many valuable markets around the country and NZ lay untapped and in some cases literally begging for a club.

It is the height of insanity to try and maintain the unsustainable while other much better opportunities are sitting within easy reach waiting to be taken.