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Do You Want Tim Back At Parramatta

Do you want Tim at Parra again

  • Yes

    Votes: 68 58.1%
  • No

    Votes: 49 41.9%

  • Total voters
    117

SDM

First Grade
Messages
7,600
I just hope Tim gets the same level of support as Dunley did when he was recovering from his debilitating reflux disease.
 

Gazzamatta

Coach
Messages
15,483
I just think he is an average footballer who was a pretty good kicker of the football. Unfortunately there are many more requirements to being a good footballer and in my opinion Tim was lacking in these areas.
Besides all that, the Club does not need him. They have better players and therefore dont require his services.
Maybe rugby in Japan would be a better option for you.
Get well Tim.
 

Stagger eel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
65,711
isn't the fact that his form this year for Wigan has been very erratic and his impending shoulder reconstruction good enough reason not to sign him?
 

yy_cheng

Coach
Messages
18,734
My contribution to this debate is simply that I found it a bit astounding that someone diagnosed with bi-polar (and who used that to gain a fully paid release form the club and professional football and move closer to family for support) would then only a mere twelve weeks later have signed up to an English club and be preparing for a significant cross hemisphere move (away from that very support that was the reason for the release)...

I don't find it astounding. He was working as a labourer if I recall correctly. It might not have been something he liked doing.

He loves football. It is what HE THINKS he is good at. It is what he loves to do.

I don't think he would've gone out of his own. Most people would ask family, friends, piggy riddell, etc before making such a decision.

Some would say no, like a doctor, some would say yes. A fresh beginning doing something he loved rather than something he didn't.

Being on the football field might have made him enjoy being TIM SMITH. An opportunity that just opened up. (I'd bet Riddell had some part in it)

He is a young man. He wouldn't be thinking about SIGNIFICANT MOVE across the HEMISPHERE.

If you ask alot of the 20 y.o. if they would like to go to EUROPE, I'd bet they would say yes. Alot forumnites here have recently been to EUROPE. Yes, they don't have bi-polar, but even if they did, I'm sure they would go.

Bart, you are thinking like a mature 35+ y.o. :lol:
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,366
would you like to explain that suity? cos lingard does bash him out every opportunity he gets(just like pete used to) And i wouldnt be alone in saying Smith gave his all for this club for a long time before he stuffed up.He stuffed himself up more than parra.

I think he`s an over-rated half-back, and I`ve stated why I think that. I`m not 'bagging him out'.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
102,338
Sorry mate. I'm serious.

Rednecks???? I mean wtf? This is a discussion, and those sorts of comments come from out of the blue.
I'd like Baz to explain why he thinks people who do not agree with his opinion are Rednecks?? :?
It's quite bizarre tbh.

Suity

I never once said that people who disagree with me are rednecks, what I said (or rather implied) was that the people around here with what I believe is a backwards and, in some cases disgusting attitude towards bi-polar and associated conditions are rednecks, and as a sufferer of a similar condition I feel I have that right. I don't meant to cause any hard feelings by saying that, as such, I mean as I said this is an internet forum and I for one don't take anything on here too personally...but one thing that does disgust and offend me to a certain degree is the attitude towards these conditions, and that attitude to me indicates a level of backwardness and ignorance. If I then compare that attitude to the attitude of a redneck, then surely that's my prerogative. Hell, there's a heck of a lot cruder stuff on here that slips through to the keeper...
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
102,338
There have been numerous reports that have stated that Tim Smith suffers from Bipolar Disorder. The club itself, various media outlets etc have all seemed to have stated this. As it has been said, the club itself would not have just released him from a contract without a medical certificate that outlines the conditions that he has. This is the same procedure that is in place if you want special consideration at university or in the workplace. They require all the medical information.

Now put yourself in the shoes of Tim Smith. People with mental disorders do not want to go public with this information unless they drastically need to. A few night outs whilst drinking with people that are a bad influence would not necessitate letting the world know that you have a mental condition. If you are that person, you want to keep that information to yourself and maybe a few close personal others. Letting the world know is not something anyone suffering a mental condition would hope to achieve.
It is not something you would be proud about because uneducated "Rednecks" like pointing the finger and saying that this person is just 'Putting it on', 'is weak', 'should just snap out of it', 'is vermon', 'has problems', 'is mental' etc.

The redneck comments are actually justified in this case. Calling someone a "vermen" or assuming that someone playing the sport they love for a big money sum should counteract the effects of bipolar is simply ludicrous. Has anyone considered that he went to the UK straight after to get away from the media scrutinizing his condition and maybe because his bipolar may/may not have caused another rash decision? (Ie. wanting to quit playing the sport you love for big money sums).

No one here is Tim Smith's personal psychologist, but he did get checked into a clinic and that's enough for me. You don't just get booked in there without a referral. Sorry guys, but if Tim Smith and his employer says he has bipolar disorder, chances are he does. You would not wish that stigma to be placed upon yourself. If he wanted to quit without reason he just would have, plain and simple. Andrew Johns didn't go public until he had to for the very same reason. You don't want people knowing this.



Who are you to say who does or does not anyway? You can't say Tim Smith is one of these people, and since he has been diagnosed with it and is getting treated for it, probably with medications and therapy, I doubt that is something you'd just put on. For someone who has family members with mental illnesses you are fairly inconsiderate.

It's like me saying that your family members are putting on their bipolar disorder. It's not a judgment I am qualified to make, and you are not qualified to make that judgment on Tim Smith either, even if you knew him personally. A psychologist has and that my friend is as good as you are going to get.

What you should focus on is people with pseudo mental conditions that don't ever get evaluated and give themselves an internet diagnosis. Tim Smith didn't do this, he went through the real processes. That is as much of confirmation as you can get that a person suffers from the ailment.

Whoa...that's without a doubt your best ever post
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
102,338
My contribution to this debate is simply that I found it a bit astounding that someone diagnosed with bi-polar (and who used that to gain a fully paid release form the club and professional football and move closer to family for support) would then only a mere twelve weeks later have signed up to an English club and be preparing for a significant cross hemisphere move (away from that very support that was the reason for the release)...

That's actually a fairly easy question to answer in theory. Personality disorders like bipolar and anxiety/panic disorder, which are very similar, alter our emotive and latent biological responses to certain situations and feelings. Basically, a certain emotion or feeling or situation that may seem harmless to a normal, healthy person triggers the sufferers fight or flight response...and then the sufferer will almost always, and without thinking they have a choice, choose flight. For some (myself and Tim) that can be a symbolic escape such as alcohol or a literal escape like a change of job, lifestyle or location. Tim left us to escape the situation that caused his fight or flight response; the media attention and seeing his own head all over the news week after week, but he couldn't even escape that at home with reports about what he was doing up there all over the place. So, once again, his condition caused him to take flight and he looked for a fresh start in England. I have no doubt that the decision seemed totally logical to him at the time because of the effects of his condition, and may have even been endorsed by his doctor, as often a change like that will significantly help a disorder like this. I know I got out of a job that caused me significant and needless anxiety and have been immeasurably better since...
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,366
Thanks, Swiftstyles. You make a good point about the medical certificate - although I have seen (many times) people get such medical certificates from doctors, psychologists with little foundation. It`s a very complicated process, diagnosing a mental illness. The thing I took exception to in your original post was when you said that Tim`s condition was going on a long time before he started playing NRL. I just don`t see how you could know that.
And thanks for your information, MITS. That`s more or less what I was asking for originally. No-one`s right or wrong in this, but I wouldn`t mind trying some of Tezza`s humble pie. I hear it`s very nice with a dollop of fresh cream.
I admit, I`ve been very sceptical about Tim Smith`s 'illness'. However, if he actually does have bi-polar disorder, I`d be the first to apologise to him. I must admit, I`ve not strongly considered that as a possibility. Maybe I should.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,366
That's actually a fairly easy question to answer in theory. Personality disorders like bipolar and anxiety/panic disorder, which are very similar, alter our emotive and latent biological responses to certain situations and feelings. Basically, a certain emotion or feeling or situation that may seem harmless to a normal, healthy person triggers the sufferers fight or flight response...and then the sufferer will almost always, and without thinking they have a choice, choose flight. For some (myself and Tim) that can be a symbolic escape such as alcohol or a literal escape like a change of job, lifestyle or location. Tim left us to escape the situation that caused his fight or flight response; the media attention and seeing his own head all over the news week after week, but he couldn't even escape that at home with reports about what he was doing up there all over the place. So, once again, his condition caused him to take flight and he looked for a fresh start in England. I have no doubt that the decision seemed totally logical to him at the time because of the effects of his condition, and may have even been endorsed by his doctor, as often a change like that will significantly help a disorder like this. I know I got out of a job that caused me significant and needless anxiety and have been immeasurably better since...

Thanks, Bazal. I didn`t mean to offend you in any way. All I wanted to know was - how do you know Tim has the same or a similar condition to yours? That`s all. I guess I`m now a little bit closer to accepting that he might have. Cheers.
 

Swiftstylez

Bench
Messages
2,858
That's actually a fairly easy question to answer in theory. Personality disorders like bipolar and anxiety/panic disorder, which are very similar, alter our emotive and latent biological responses to certain situations and feelings. Basically, a certain emotion or feeling or situation that may seem harmless to a normal, healthy person triggers the sufferers fight or flight response...and then the sufferer will almost always, and without thinking they have a choice, choose flight. For some (myself and Tim) that can be a symbolic escape such as alcohol or a literal escape like a change of job, lifestyle or location. Tim left us to escape the situation that caused his fight or flight response; the media attention and seeing his own head all over the news week after week, but he couldn't even escape that at home with reports about what he was doing up there all over the place. So, once again, his condition caused him to take flight and he looked for a fresh start in England. I have no doubt that the decision seemed totally logical to him at the time because of the effects of his condition, and may have even been endorsed by his doctor, as often a change like that will significantly help a disorder like this. I know I got out of a job that caused me significant and needless anxiety and have been immeasurably better since...

QFT

Lingard,

while I can't "prove" Tim is bi-polar or manic depressive as I don
't have the doctor records as such, I have it on very good authority fro. 3 sources inside the club thatTim was diagnosed as such in 2005 - 2006 of season and. Was treated for such with medication and counsoling from that time forward. After his issues late November 2007 the condition was made "public" by Denis Fitzgerald to the football club members at the December 2007 AGM a full 4 months before it hit the papers. Now you don't have to believe me on that on but Stagger Eel and Hellsy are 2 people I know who were at that agm and they would be able to confirm that

Well yeah, Lingard, whilst it shouldn't have to really be proved either way as it's someones personal medical history, that's all the evidence you can really obtain. If I was in his position and a mental condition got the best of me, I'm not sure what I would do. I would not want to disclose to my employer if I knew the entire world was going to know. At the same time though, you'd have to weigh up the abuse you would cop from the fans of the team knowing that you have dogged them if you didn't release your condition as the reasoning. Now it seems that Tim Smith has got the worst of both worlds.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,366
QFT



Well yeah, Lingard, whilst it shouldn't have to really be proved either way as it's someones personal medical history, that's all the evidence you can really obtain. If I was in his position and a mental condition got the best of me, I'm not sure what I would do. I would not want to disclose to my employer if I knew the entire world was going to know. At the same time though, you'd have to weigh up the abuse you would cop from the fans of the team knowing that you have dogged them if you didn't release your condition as the reasoning. Now it seems that Tim Smith has got the worst of both worlds.

Fair enough. If (and forgive me,but I will continue to say 'if') he does have bi-polar disorder, then he is the big loser in all of this.
 
Messages
15,191
Just to follow up now I am not on my iPhone.

He was diagnosed after his counseling sessions following the infamous "Santa" attack. I have heard Brian was quite supportive of him staying at the club and was one of the few things Brian did some work on during the 05 - 06 off season when he was diagnosed. From that Time on Tim was on 2 drugs and always lived with a flat mate, partially to keep and eye on Tim and that he took the pills. However outside influences still played a role in things, like the incident 2 days before Brian Smith quit.

With the change of structure in the coaching staff not much changed, the boys were fit and playing well and the relaxed culture was a sigh of relief to everyone, however the biggest change was when Tim was back to full fitness after an operation at the end of 07 when he moved out by himself. With no one looking over his shoulder, he stopped taking his drugs (figuring he was a normal 21 year old and shouldn't have to take them) and started to self medicate purely on alcohol. Causing the two issues that happened Late 2007, 1 before and 1 directly after the Christmas Party. Then with things not going right at the club, no one able to step in an help him like his flat mate did through most of 2007, Tim felt he had to do something about it and in my opinion took the wrong option to quit.

Now I myself am depressive, I am not Manic depressive (bi-polar) but I have suffered depression to the point where I had the hot water running and the Razor blades out (Cut up not across kiddies it makes it quicker), but I didn't follow through because I at the age of 21 took personal responsibility for my life and didn't quit. Actually I quit doing something that night but I stayed at my job, I stayed employed and I kept seeing my friends and family, I kept living my life. At the time I criticized Tim in an F7's article for quiting and that it would be something he would have to live with for a long time. Hence why I said earlier in this thread, if Tim came back, played at Wenty until he got his skills and confidence right, till he found some form and not just match fitness like the other coach wanted, then he could be an asset to the club. Indeed he could be an asset to any club.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,366
Just to follow up now I am not on my iPhone.

He was diagnosed after his counseling sessions following the infamous "Santa" attack. I have heard Brian was quite supportive of him staying at the club and was one of the few things Brian did some work on during the 05 - 06 off season when he was diagnosed. From that Time on Tim was on 2 drugs and always lived with a flat mate, partially to keep and eye on Tim and that he took the pills. However outside influences still played a role in things, like the incident 2 days before Brian Smith quit.

With the change of structure in the coaching staff not much changed, the boys were fit and playing well and the relaxed culture was a sigh of relief to everyone, however the biggest change was when Tim was back to full fitness after an operation at the end of 07 when he moved out by himself. With no one looking over his shoulder, he stopped taking his drugs (figuring he was a normal 21 year old and shouldn't have to take them) and started to self medicate purely on alcohol. Causing the two issues that happened Late 2007, 1 before and 1 directly after the Christmas Party. Then with things not going right at the club, no one able to step in an help him like his flat mate did through most of 2007, Tim felt he had to do something about it and in my opinion took the wrong option to quit.

Now I myself am depressive, I am not Manic depressive (bi-polar) but I have suffered depression to the point where I had the hot water running and the Razor blades out (Cut up not across kiddies it makes it quicker), but I didn't follow through because I at the age of 21 took personal responsibility for my life and didn't quit. Actually I quit doing something that night but I stayed at my job, I stayed employed and I kept seeing my friends and family, I kept living my life. At the time I criticized Tim in an F7's article for quiting and that it would be something he would have to live with for a long time. Hence why I said earlier in this thread, if Tim came back, played at Wenty until he got his skills and confidence right, till he found some form and not just match fitness like the other coach wanted, then he could be an asset to the club. Indeed he could be an asset to any club.

Thanks for that, MITS. That seems to clear up a lot of things. Shame some of this stuff wasn`t made public earlier - it might have prevented a lot of ill-feeling toward him. By the way, who was Smith`s flat-mate?
 

Raudonikis

Juniors
Messages
1,544
My contribution to this debate is simply that I found it a bit astounding that someone diagnosed with bi-polar (and who used that to gain a fully paid release form the club and professional football and move closer to family for support) would then only a mere twelve weeks later have signed up to an English club and be preparing for a significant cross hemisphere move (away from that very support that was the reason for the release)...

........So now you are saying he used his condition as an exuse,not only have you been a moral crusader reguarding player behaviour but now you are virtually implying he was full of sh*t for his reasons leaving parra? i think if you have a grown up think about it,you would realise he had to get out of that fishbowl and more than likely was advised to go continue his careere elsewhere so he could overcome his issues.The more i read of your comments,which by the way you actually thrive on commenting about issues other than rugby league matters.Ala kiki sh*t.The more i realise you are just a an idiot who has more than likely lived a very sheltered life and think no one should ever do any wrong.You have become quiet amusing
 

Raudonikis

Juniors
Messages
1,544
Indeed you are right, Colonel. I meant 'put it to bed' within the context of this forum - or at least this discussion. And don`t forget, it`s equally possible that he might not have any demons; he might just have the noble diagnosis of Dick-head. He could also be a plain simple alcoholic, which means he`s got a whole lot of stuff to go through, and let`s hope he`s tough enough to do it.

Why do some of you blokes label a guy who goes out for a drinking session now and then a drunk or no hoper when he has ACTUALLY done nothing immoral or legally wrong?
 

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