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FO Kearney

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,320
I don't agree about the roster. This roster is really not all that flash, particularly with that forward pack they're a fringe eight team, I definitely don't think they'd be some playoff certainty under another coach.

I don't agree with that, let's have a look:
- we have the full Kiwi's spine, including three premiership winners and a golden boot
- Mannering and Matulino are world class
- Hoffman and Lillyman are origin regulars

The surrounding mob:
- Kata, Brodene and Fusitua have shown strong glimpses of high-quality footy. They have a head problem and should be doing much better.
- Ayshford is a very solid player
- CNK, Tevaga have shown they can cut the top grade
- Gavet has been a beast this year

That's most of a starting lineup who'll make any other NRL team.

Yes the bench is weak, we're one or two big props short of being truly dangerous; but this should be more than enough to build a top 8 team. I mean look at us, we're miles off the cut and our coach is saying "winning doesn't matter".

In our clubs history we've rarely had it this good, Uncle Ivan usually had half of this and didn't have much trouble getting us into September.

But there's the problem, Kearney doesn't know how to mould his riches into a coordinated team. Right now they're just a collection of good players mincing around the same way the World Cricket XI did against Australia a decade ago. That's a coaching failure right there.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,801
Sure but in their words they weren't on the same page, that's coaching

And to a degree execution is too, that's what practice is for...
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,801
Yep truckload of evidence that Kearney isn't up to it, and similarly the playing group
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Unfortunately for Steve I think the evidence is now fairly conclusive.

Great backrower
Adequate to good assistant
Very good international coach
Abysmal club head coach

He's had time under Bellamy and Bennett. But he can't organise a team through preseason to end of season which is the major difference to representative football.

I'd say unfortunately, as much as I think he's a good bloke and quite articulate, and he's shown himself to be loyal to a fault, that the same is true with Andrew McFadden.

I think Steve McNamara could potentially have stepped up. But that ship has sailed.

Stacey, too early. I'm confident we'd be dudding him given this situation.

We need an experienced well performed coach. It was undoubtedly IMO a mistake not to re-sign Ivan either in 2011 or at the end of last season. So he's out. It only leaves Geoff Toovey IMO but even then I have doubts.

We are a horrible, horrible footy club. You can almost pinpoint our anarchy to two stupid moments. One, releasing Ivan. Two, the big PR hoopla about being the biggest sporting club in the Southern Hemisphere. I genuinely feel our focus on the football club waned. Quite unbelievable given we had the best junior pathway by some margin and quite inconceivably basically made nothing of it.

What a joke the Worriers are.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Scarey, right? Surely Grant Pocklington must be getring the ax. The club for two or three years has trotted out the excuse that the focus on NYC has been a big root cause of our problems. Rubbish, what a lot of tripe. Let's see how they go with no one coming up from NYC.

Interestingly I read two articles today from when we signed Matthew Elliott where Wayne Scurrah and Eric Watson noted they had a long list of applicants for the head coaches role with the biggest attraction being the NYC pipeline. It would only be 12 months later that this tune changed.

Other clubs turn mud to gold. We turn gold to mud. Even forgetting the NYC blokes that we absolutely missed the boat with, I don't think we've done all that well with Hoffman, Foran, RTS and Luke.

It was only a decade ago when the likes of Cleary, Campion, Carlaw, Marsh, Tookey, Mears, Death, Gatos, even the likes of Witt and Rovelli, heck I'd even argue Seymour, Morgan et al, all produced their career bests at this club. What the hell changed?

Edit, your can add McKinnon, Byrne and possibly Moon to that list. We used to be able to get the best out of blokes. Now we destroy careers and reputations and no one wants a bar of us.
 
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KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
Really don't agree that our junior pathways were at any time well ahead of everybody.

Our pathways imo have been horrible for preparing first graders.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Not disagreeing with you. I'm talking more about the player pipeline. As in what we had the opportunity to develop. Which we failed miserably with.
 

WellsNZ

Juniors
Messages
903
I don't agree with that, let's have a look:
- we have the full Kiwi's spine, including three premiership winners and a golden boot
- Mannering and Matulino are world class
- Hoffman and Lillyman are origin regulars

The surrounding mob:
- Kata, Brodene and Fusitua have shown strong glimpses of high-quality footy. They have a head problem and should be doing much better.
- Ayshford is a very solid player
- CNK, Tevaga have shown they can cut the top grade
- Gavet has been a beast this year

That's most of a starting lineup who'll make any other NRL team.

Yes the bench is weak, we're one or two big props short of being truly dangerous; but this should be more than enough to build a top 8 team. I mean look at us, we're miles off the cut and our coach is saying "winning doesn't matter".

In our clubs history we've rarely had it this good, Uncle Ivan usually had half of this and didn't have much trouble getting us into September.

But there's the problem, Kearney doesn't know how to mould his riches into a coordinated team. Right now they're just a collection of good players mincing around the same way the World Cricket XI did against Australia a decade ago. That's a coaching failure right there.

The "Kiwi spine" thing gets blown out of proportion. Reality is there's very, very few Kiwis who even play any of those positions at NRL level. Calling them premiership winners is giving them additional value for the team they played for rather than their own ability.

But even then, as I said, the pretty spine doesn't matter when your forwards suck.

Mannering obviously is great, however, world class is a big call given there's multiple guys who play lock in the NRL who I'd definitely take before him. Matulino was world class, now he's good, and he's leaving.

Hoffman is not an Origin regular. Hoffman WAS an Origin regular. He is also leaving.

Lillyman is not an Origin regular and never has been. I'm pretty sure he's only played one full Origin series. For the most part he's been a fringe Origin selection.

"they have a head problem" yes, and unfortunately being an intelligent player is quite important, just having the physical tools doesn't cut it. Until they develop mentally they aren't the players you'd like to hype them to be.

Guys like CNK and Tevaga are fine, but basically every club has good young players coming through, most clubs have better ones. Considering some of the young backs that have come on the scene this season, someone like Cotric looks a much different level.

Fact is that forward pack, for all these supposed world class and origin regulars, gets stomped weekly. That's because basically every team has a bigger, stronger, better forward pack. How many forward packs in the NRL would you genuinely pick the Warriors over?

I'd say they're one or two good props short from actually being a top eight worthy side, nevermind truly dangerous.

You're judging the paper Warriors, how many times must we be let down by the paper Warriors before realising these players really aren't all they're cracked up to be? Hyping them up with labels like you're using is just setting up for disappointment.

None of this is to say Kearney is any good. But this team has had the coach excuse over and over and over again. Perhaps it's both the team and the coaches.

Ivan had half of this? I'd take those Warriors rosters over this one pretty happily, particularly for the time they played.
 
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Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
The "Kiwi spine" thing gets blown out of proportion. Reality is there's very, very few Kiwis who even play any of those positions at NRL level. Calling them premiership winners is giving them additional value for the team they played for rather than their own ability.

But even then, as I said, the pretty spine doesn't matter when your forwards suck.

Mannering obviously is great, however, world class is a big call given there's multiple guys who play lock in the NRL who I'd definitely take before him. Matulino was world class, now he's good, and he's leaving.

Hoffman is not an Origin regular. Hoffman WAS an Origin regular. He is also leaving.

Lillyman is not an Origin regular and never has been. I'm pretty sure he's only played one full Origin series. For the most part he's been a fringe Origin selection.

"they have a head problem" yes, and unfortunately being an intelligent player is quite important, just having the physical tools doesn't cut it. Until they develop mentally they aren't the players you'd like to hype them to be.

Guys like CNK and Tevaga are fine, but basically every club has good young players coming through, most clubs have better ones. Considering some of the young backs that have come on the scene this season, someone like Cotric looks a much different level.

Fact is that forward pack, for all these supposed world class and origin regulars, gets stomped weekly. That's because basically every team has a bigger, stronger, better forward pack. How many forward packs in the NRL would you genuinely pick the Warriors over?

I'd say they're one or two good props short from actually being a top eight worthy side, nevermind truly dangerous.

You're judging the paper Warriors, how many times must we be let down by the paper Warriors before realising these players really aren't all they're cracked up to be? Hyping them up with labels like you're using is just setting up for disappointment.

None of this is to say Kearney is any good. But this team has had the coach excuse over and over and over again. Perhaps it's both the team and the coaches.

Ivan had half of this? I'd take those Warriors rosters over this one pretty happily, particularly for the time they played.

No offence but Ivan made 5 star chicken laksa from chicken kaka. He was working with the likes of Witt, Rovelli, Fien, Gatis as his playmakers. He had one year with Johnson. They went to the Grand Final.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,801
.

Ivan had half of this? I'd take those Warriors rosters over this one pretty happily, particularly for the time they played.
Lot of good points - but Clearly never had a spine like Luke, Johnson, Foran and RTS - at the end of the day it's a 15 team comp, and for the season to be acceptable teams have to finish in the top 8 - we can't manage it any year, and this year Phillip (I think) pointed out we've been in the top 8 for a grand total of 1 week LMAO - despite a good drawer and being hugely advantaged by the Origin Window - we should be able to scramble into the top 8 despite not having a great squad - a bunch of other teams have and do, FMD look at the Titans last year - a bit of teamwork, structure and tenacity goes a long way. The Eels pack this year is hardly formidable, actually their entire squad is a bit meh, as is Manly's and St George's (admittedly they have a good pack, but Josh f**king McCrone?

Yes, the players and squad isn't brilliant, but that's the reality for most squads, we still should be able to scramble enough decent performances to be better than 9/15 once in a while - it's laughable
 

Beavers Headgear

First Grade
Messages
8,765
Thurston on Sunday footy show discussing the warriors, said they are very easy to defend because they are so predictable with their out the back play and they need to get some variety into their attack
 

Cold Roses

Juniors
Messages
1,793
and accountability.
If you know you or others are not dropped for your efforts, or lack there of, still get paid, it creates a lazy culture.
Why should I do the work if no one else is? Why should I get up from the tackle and get back in the line, why should I chase the break away? Captain doesnt turn and chase after his mistake, why should I?

Except this culture is the one that already exists. It's nothing uniquely pertaining to Kearneys short reign. I'd argue that it's one that he intends to erase with bringing in more second tier players who have a professional approach.

Attitude and ability are two different things, and I would choose those with the better attitude than ability.
Those guys may cost us game now, but will produce in the future.

Those guys are better off where they are for now. They'll get there chance when they're ready, and they'll be better for it for not having there confidence shot by been exposed in first grade like Bunty and Lisone are for example.
 
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