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FO Kearney

Messages
10,077
Karma in a way that Blair tries some of his niggly rubbish that isn't necessary and the Broncos lose a key man because of it

In depth chat on the Warriors tonight on NRL 360

In a nutshell Kent says they need to recruit more players that have come through the Aussie system, because the kiwi system the guys come through is too soft, and they don't have any hard edge to them that the Australians learn from 14-19. Also teams know they can try and bash them out of the game that way

Woods was asked the question about them and said that in pre match analysis the other teams all know that the Warriors can put plenty of points on you in a hurry, so the game plan is always to hang in there and know that you'll most likely get them in the end
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
Karma in a way that Blair tries some of his niggly rubbish that isn't necessary and the Broncos lose a key man because of it

In depth chat on the Warriors tonight on NRL 360

In a nutshell Kent says they need to recruit more players that have come through the Aussie system, because the kiwi system the guys come through is too soft, and they don't have any hard edge to them that the Australians learn from 14-19. Also teams know they can try and bash them out of the game that way

Woods was asked the question about them and said that in pre match analysis the other teams all know that the Warriors can put plenty of points on you in a hurry, so the game plan is always to hang in there and know that you'll most likely get them in the end

That's pretty much been the game plan for 20+ years so nothing new from Woodsy.

As for Kent's comment, most Warriors fans are well aware of it, the Warriors themselves are aware of it, but there's that little issue of actually getting them to come over that's the stumbling block.
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
Messages
40,570
That's pretty much been the game plan for 20+ years so nothing new from Woodsy.

As for Kent's comment, most Warriors fans are well aware of it, the Warriors themselves are aware of it, but there's that little issue of actually getting them to come over that's the stumbling block.

Yep. Football aside Auckland isn't an attractive destination for most Aussie players, it's cold, wet and further away from friends and family compared to their other options. Throw in a rubbish team and why would they bother? Easier when we're actually performing, then the club looks like s decent career move at least.

As has been said plenty of times before we need to recruit more from the Union system because that's where the homegrown professionalism and excellence is. And especially outside Auckland there would be a lot of young guys in that system who're league fans but playing union because it's all their school or home town offers.
 
Messages
17,770
As for Kent's comment, most Warriors fans are well aware of it, the Warriors themselves are aware of it, but there's that little issue of actually getting them to come over that's the stumbling block.
We can't target to many top grade guys, but we can look to those stuck behind your JTs, Smith, Cronk, Hayne etc. looking at NSW and QLD cup teams for guys wanting a chance.
England at a stretch, but that hasn't worked out as well for us.

Not sure of the resources we have allocated to recruiting?
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,467
at the start of the season he and Doyle were talking about accountability and the top 8 being non-negotiable, defining Doyle's tenure etc - Doyle's now backflipped on that citing injuries etc (cop out we haven't been hit hard and we were struggling with Johnson) - and Kearney's mumbling about it not being about winning, and a process and competing - when we're certainly no better than under McFadden - at least he had us in the 8 at Origin time

Have they? Geezus there's a real undercurrent of lack of accountability here. Doyle has said ad nauseum he goes if we fail to make finals. We've failed. He appointed the coach (whether or not he was influenced, he did) and the coach isn't any good. And now it's injuries? Give me a spell. We were never in the 8!

The thing that shits me the most is this silly rhetoric that SK has 'inherited' this team and needs time to mould it etc. Well here's the thing. The Kiwi spine, the Mannerings, the other Kiwis players/squad members, the QLD prop, the ex NSW backrower etc are here. So if you're decent you get that side to the finals, minimum. And newsflash, the 'team that Stephen built' looks like being even more atrocious next year. He's been able to add one NRL quality player, and little else. People don't want to come to play under Kearney. He's coached professional teams since what, 2008? He should know how to coach by now. The reason, in my opinion, that he's not successful now is he's not a strong leader, not all that intelligent etc. And I can't see it changing.

Really gets a free run from the Herald, does Kearney. I read some laughably soft stuff on Sunday, like the 'needs his own side' crap and some other stuff saying we were more hardened this year etc.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,467
And Adam Blair? Good lord, no thanks. If ever there was a player in the NRL who would take his cash over here and give half his arse until retirement, it'd be Adam Blair. That grubby shit that took out McCullough last week is him to a tee. He'd be horrendous for us.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,467
Yep. Football aside Auckland isn't an attractive destination for most Aussie players, it's cold, wet and further away from friends and family compared to their other options. Throw in a rubbish team and why would they bother? Easier when we're actually performing, then the club looks like s decent career move at least.

As has been said plenty of times before we need to recruit more from the Union system because that's where the homegrown professionalism and excellence is. And especially outside Auckland there would be a lot of young guys in that system who're league fans but playing union because it's all their school or home town offers.

Trouble is you're going to get the lower layer of talent from union. All the cream is going to stick with union where the pay is better, the pathway is better, the professionalism is better, the celebrity is better, the coaches are better..just everything is better. I know guys who are in Europe working on their tan, who played nothing more than NPC who make more money than a lot of Warriors. It's not a fair contest, Add to that the fact we can't develop players in our system and it says the union route is pretty well a dead end to us. The Aussie system, either poaching or growing our young talent over there, is the way forward.
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
Have they? Geezus there's a real undercurrent of lack of accountability here. Doyle has said ad nauseum he goes if we fail to make finals. We've failed. He appointed the coach (whether or not he was influenced, he did) and the coach isn't any good.

No he hasn't. There was one article at the beginning of the year where a journo tried to take that narrative even though JD never actually said it.

Warriors fans have been clinging to it like a baby to a tit at feeding time ever since
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Have they? Geezus there's a real undercurrent of lack of accountability here. Doyle has said ad nauseum he goes if we fail to make finals. We've failed. He appointed the coach (whether or not he was influenced, he did) and the coach isn't any good. And now it's injuries? Give me a spell. We were never in the 8!

The thing that shits me the most is this silly rhetoric that SK has 'inherited' this team and needs time to mould it etc. Well here's the thing. The Kiwi spine, the Mannerings, the other Kiwis players/squad members, the QLD prop, the ex NSW backrower etc are here. So if you're decent you get that side to the finals, minimum. And newsflash, the 'team that Stephen built' looks like being even more atrocious next year. He's been able to add one NRL quality player, and little else. People don't want to come to play under Kearney. He's coached professional teams since what, 2008? He should know how to coach by now. The reason, in my opinion, that he's not successful now is he's not a strong leader, not all that intelligent etc. And I can't see it changing.

Really gets a free run from the Herald, does Kearney. I read some laughably soft stuff on Sunday, like the 'needs his own side' crap and some other stuff saying we were more hardened this year etc.

I think Jim is easily the best qualified CEO we could hope to have, frankly. I also think without him we are in an even bigger hole if that's imaginable. If I was Jim though, I'd not have made that comment earlier in the year. He's quite honest and upfront from what I've seen, and realistically he's flush with cash and doesn't need the Warriors. But I think he has a real passion for league and the club and wants desperately to turn it around.

The big question is how.

He's the one part of the club though that I have any confidence left in.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,714
Have they? Geezus there's a real undercurrent of lack of accountability here. Doyle has said ad nauseum he goes if we fail to make finals. We've failed. He appointed the coach (whether or not he was influenced, he did) and the coach isn't any good. And now it's injuries? Give me a spell. We were never in the 8!

The thing that shits me the most is this silly rhetoric that SK has 'inherited' this team and needs time to mould it etc. Well here's the thing. The Kiwi spine, the Mannerings, the other Kiwis players/squad members, the QLD prop, the ex NSW backrower etc are here. So if you're decent you get that side to the finals, minimum. And newsflash, the 'team that Stephen built' looks like being even more atrocious next year. He's been able to add one NRL quality player, and little else. People don't want to come to play under Kearney. He's coached professional teams since what, 2008? He should know how to coach by now. The reason, in my opinion, that he's not successful now is he's not a strong leader, not all that intelligent etc. And I can't see it changing.

Really gets a free run from the Herald, does Kearney. I read some laughably soft stuff on Sunday, like the 'needs his own side' crap and some other stuff saying we were more hardened this year etc.

The story I was referring to - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11896771

The club is performing poorly, I don't see any signs of improvement

Jim Doyle has no plans to exit the Warriors, despite the club's likely failure to make the playoffs in 2017. The Auckland club's top eight chances are all but over for another year, after the 26-12 loss to the Sharks on Friday night.

While there is still, perhaps, a mathematical possibility the team could end up in the finals, reality says there is no chance.

The team has lost four matches in a row, three in disappointing fashion, and confidence is at a low ebb. There is no sense of a miracle about to unfold, like the Eels' run from nowhere in 2009 or the Ruben Wiki-inspired Warriors a year earlier.

It's a bitter pill to swallow, as the recruitment of Kieran Foran and the arrival of new coach Stephen Kearney, plus a host of support staff and a grandiose sounding football advisory board, were meant to result in rich dividends this year.

Making the finals was seen as a bare minimum and Doyle admitted in March that it was a "defining season" for him.

"Obviously it depends on the circumstances," Doyle told the Herald on Sunday. "Things might not go well [this year] but it depends on how [it happens]. But if there has been no dramas, no issues along the way, and no significant injuries and I am sitting here thinking I don't know how I could improve things - then there is no point me being here. It is a defining season, certainly for me," added Doyle. "In any organisation, the CEO is responsible for creating the right environment and getting the right people. We have the best coaching staff the club has ever had and a pretty good roster. We'll have issues along the way - whether they are injuries or other things - but hopefully we have people who can cope with that."

Doyle declined to comment on his future when approached by the Herald on Sunday this week but it's understood he has no plans to abandon ship. It's believed he has already told senior staff - as well as the football department - that he intends to be at Mt Smart for at least another year and has received assurances from the board and owner Eric Watson that his job is not under review.

This season has been a major disappointment, where the constant talk of process and progress hasn't been matched by results on the field. Instinct says the team have developed a harder edge this year, and they have competed well against the big teams on occasions, but questions remain over attitude, culture, work ethic and tactics.

The Warriors have also paid the price for poor recruitment decisions last year. While they put a lot of energy into luring Foran - which was an understandable gamble - what the club desperately needed was some quality forwards, and choosing to proceed with essentially the same pack that struggled in 2016 was a major strategic mistake.

Doyle deserves credit for the acquisition of Issac Luke and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and for securing the club's future at Mt Smart. He has streamlined the club's operations and increased overall membership numbers. But he also put his faith in Kearney (over much more experienced candidates such as Geoff Toovey and Ivan Cleary) and allowed former coach Andrew McFadden to stay on, in an unusual scenario.

Recruitment over the next few months is crucial, then Doyle - and Kearney - will be judged on results next year.

Former CEO Wayne Scurrah helped oversee four finals appearances in nine years, including the 2011 grand final, but his legacy was damaged by the Sam Tomkins failure and Cleary's premature exit.
.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Time for him to replace talk with action though.

On the face of it, agreed. However sometimes it's hard to see what has been actioned behind the scenes. He's recruited Luke and RTS and most if not all thought this would be good, he got Foran which a majority thought was a positive even if it was just for a year. He stopped the move to Albany. As I hear it, and why I don't know, merchandise and memberships revenues are up. Agree or disagree he also changed coaches and I think have Kearney a good support crew.

He's trying to change the culture. He wants players at the club in his words to be "above the line". As in professional with things like punctuality to training (believe it or not, sadly I heard this had been accepted in the past). And also, diet and recovery when they are away from the club.

Of course from that I want to know who the hell turned a blind eye to this stuff. I've read so much mind boggling stuff. Laughing at captains when they've laid the law down, sniggering at coaches when they speak in public forums... As much as for example I don't rate Adam Blair as a player, if he is someone who won't tolerate that rubbish, then bring him and others in.
 

Cold Roses

Juniors
Messages
1,793
Gotta say, here’s some real Rose Tinted Glasses rubbish around here at the moment about how good our roster is. Fringe Origin Prop who’s in and out of the team. Over the Hill NSW second rowers, bit part Internationals who play for teams with no depth and are lucky to have gotten a rep jersey in the first place. And that Kiwi Spine, Oh that glorious Kiwi spine, one’s fat and past his best, and anothers body is so obviously broken that anyone who opens their eyes could see it. But wait, they won three tests in a row against Australia didn’t they? That’s right, best in the world, must have been a good coach of that team, except, hang on, can’t be the coach who was good can it?, must have been the players right? But if that’s the case, if they’re so good, why can’t those same players get us some wins here then? Oh right. Because of our coach. Kearney’s fault. Obvious… Wait a sec? Or, here’s a thought, maybe the playing group around the ‘Kiwi Spine’ was better than the turds we are polishing here at the Warriors.

If the guys we have were any good they’d be on the fringe of the 8 each year. At least.

6 Years. Matulino, Lillyman, Vatuvei, Johnson. No finals. Mannering gets a free pass.

4 Years. Fusitua. No Finals.

3 years. Thompson, Vete, Lisone. No Finals.

2 Years. Tuivasa-Sheck, Luke. No Finals.

That’s quite a talented playing group all right.

Read a good article in The Herald on the weekend. By Skipworth I think. Definitely took the emotion out of things. Good dose of the reality of the situation. Knows what he’s talking about.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,467
No he hasn't. There was one article at the beginning of the year where a journo tried to take that narrative even though JD never actually said it.

Warriors fans have been clinging to it like a baby to a tit at feeding time ever since

Okay, I'll admit I might've got it wrong on the exact wording...but this is 3 years ago:

"Not making the eight is just not acceptable. There's no reason why the Warriors shouldn't be making the eight and we should be pushing for higher than that. Each year we expect to get better."

"No, the NRL is the toughest competition in the world." But, he says, the top-eight every year is a reasonable minimum and they should be pushing for the top four too.


When we've not been close in his 3 years, questions at least need to be asked. I like the guy, he's a savvy businessman but I think he's shat the bed badly on coaches and at the end of the day, they are the people who make such an incredible difference to the footy side and the club as a whole.

Dunno bout that baby and tit thing either, it's not like anyone wants Jim to fail. I certainly don't
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,625
The argument isn't that our players are playing like polished turds. The argument is that our players are capable of playing better than polished turds.
 

Cold Roses

Juniors
Messages
1,793
On the face of it, agreed. However sometimes it's hard to see what has been actioned behind the scenes. He's recruited Luke and RTS and most if not all thought this would be good, he got Foran which a majority thought was a positive even if it was just for a year. He stopped the move to Albany. As I hear it, and why I don't know, merchandise and memberships revenues are up. Agree or disagree he also changed coaches and I think have Kearney a good support crew.

He's trying to change the culture. He wants players at the club in his words to be "above the line". As in professional with things like punctuality to training (believe it or not, sadly I heard this had been accepted in the past). And also, diet and recovery when they are away from the club.

Of course from that I want to know who the hell turned a blind eye to this stuff. I've read so much mind boggling stuff. Laughing at captains when they've laid the law down, sniggering at coaches when they speak in public forums... As much as for example I don't rate Adam Blair as a player, if he is someone who won't tolerate that rubbish, then bring him and others in.


Good common sense stuff. Kearney might not be a miracle worker, but I think the Super Coaches would be struggling as well with the stink that has crept into this club over time. That shit doesn't disappear overnight. You can't just tell half a dozen guys that they no longer have contracts and magically conjure up another 6 with equal experience to replace them.

Unlike others, I do see some signs of improvement. It's not in the glamorous, flamboyant areas that might make the fans happy. It's in the basic building blocks shit which will give a foundation for success to be built on.
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
Okay, I'll admit I might've got it wrong on the exact wording...but this is 3 years ago:

"Not making the eight is just not acceptable. There's no reason why the Warriors shouldn't be making the eight and we should be pushing for higher than that. Each year we expect to get better."

"No, the NRL is the toughest competition in the world." But, he says, the top-eight every year is a reasonable minimum and they should be pushing for the top four too.


When we've not been close in his 3 years, questions at least need to be asked. I like the guy, he's a savvy businessman but I think he's shat the bed badly on coaches and at the end of the day, they are the people who make such an incredible difference to the footy side and the club as a whole.

Dunno bout that baby and tit thing either, it's not like anyone wants Jim to fail. I certainly don't

I'm more talking about the other forum where some of the JD venom is getting pretty constant and mainly revolving around the idea that he said he'd quit.
 
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