General Discussion Thread

[MrBlack]

Someone in the General Forum section is suggesting that Tim Grant is about to sign for us.

We may be on the money with that one.

If true - will be a good signing. I assume the only reason he is not getting a run at Tigers is because of the well documented issues he and Cleary (Ivan not Nathan) had.

 

[mxlegend99]

Edit- and while I'm here, the reason our cap is so tight is the fact that there are very few in the squad on minimum wage, not because of the imagined huge contracts of a few.

Bullshit. That's not a fact.

We have ~10 players with minimal or no first grade experience at all. Who will more than likely get minimal or no first grade time this year.

It would be a pretty big waste of cap space to have those guys on more than minimum wage. 5 of the guys in our top 30 are simply guys we are FORCED to have on bigger contracts to fill out the squad.

These guys have zero first grade games.

Corey Waddell
Jack Hetherington
Kaide Ellis
Nick Lui Toso
Wayde Egan
Jerome Luai
Jed Cartwright

These guys have 10 or less:
Tyone Philips
Christin Crichton (im giving him one game in advance)
Tyrone May

You then have Moses Leota and Sione Katoa with 15 and 13 games.

Most of those guys are in the squad to fill the minimum requirements. Having guys who wont play first grade unless desparate on more than necessary would be even dumber than paying $750k per season to Tamou.

At best some might have incentives in contracts for a pay bump. But as it stands now most of them werent even top 25 players last year and are getting a huge pay bump just by being part of our top 30. Why would Gus give them more again when we have pressure on our cap?

 

[franklin2323]

Someone in the General Forum section is suggesting that Tim Grant is about to sign for us.

We may be on the money with that one.

If true - will be a good signing. I assume the only reason he is not getting a run at Tigers is because of the well documented issues he and Cleary (Ivan not Nathan) had.

I heard the same. Good signing adds experience and should be relatively cheap

 

[franklin2323]

Thanks for the link mate, but I'm not getting any of that from his comments. "Some wingers are worth more" .... yeah OK. "That won't get you to first base"(the suggested 400k), ie- he believes Mansour to be worth more than that.
So this "journalist" thinks how can I use this to shit on Penrith? How about something like- "Gould rubbishes the claim that Mansour is worth 400k" That'll get their insecure ,gullible fans all worked up. Job well done.

Edit- and while I'm here, the reason our cap is so tight is the fact that there are very few in the squad on minimum wage, not because of the imagined huge contracts of a few.

We have $400k from Bryce still to use. The problem is we have to re-sign Blake, RCG and Cleary for 2020 so need to save coin

 

[mxlegend99]

2 weeks ago Tim Grant would have been an average signing. But that changed when we got 2 serious injuries in that position on the same day.

I've barely watched him at Tigers. But at Souths I watched him a bit and think he could atleast match Tim Browne unless he has gone backwards since joining Tigers.

I know Ivan Cleary and he don't get along. So I sm happy to accept hes outside the Tigers top 17 for that reason.

 

[OldPanther]

Thanks for the link mate, but I'm not getting any of that from his comments. "Some wingers are worth more" .... yeah OK. "That won't get you to first base"(the suggested 400k), ie- he believes Mansour to be worth more than that.
So this "journalist" thinks how can I use this to shit on Penrith? How about something like- "Gould rubbishes the claim that Mansour is worth 400k" That'll get their insecure ,gullible fans all worked up. Job well done.

Edit- and while I'm here, the reason our cap is so tight is the fact that there are very few in the squad on minimum wage, not because of the imagined huge contracts of a few.

My opinion came from from the show not an article.

As far as contracts go until they are made public I'm in the "no idea" camp.

 

[OldPanther]

Someone in the General Forum section is suggesting that Tim Grant is about to sign for us.

We may be on the money with that one.

If true - will be a good signing. I assume the only reason he is not getting a run at Tigers is because of the well documented issues he and Cleary (Ivan not Nathan) had.

I heard the same. Good signing adds experience and should be relatively cheap

Agreed. We could get value there.

 

[OldPanther]

 

[Blues Riff]

Bullshit. That's not a fact.

We have ~10 players with minimal or no first grade experience at all. Who will more than likely get minimal or no first grade time this year.

It would be a pretty big waste of cap space to have those guys on more than minimum wage. 5 of the guys in our top 30 are simply guys we are FORCED to have on bigger contracts to fill out the squad.

These guys have zero first grade games.

Corey Waddell
Jack Hetherington
Kaide Ellis
Nick Lui Toso
Wayde Egan
Jerome Luai
Jed Cartwright

These guys have 10 or less:
Tyone Philips
Christin Crichton (im giving him one game in advance)
Tyrone May

You then have Moses Leota and Sione Katoa with 15 and 13 games.

Most of those guys are in the squad to fill the minimum requirements. Having guys who wont play first grade unless desparate on more than necessary would be even dumber than paying $750k per season to Tamou.

At best some might have incentives in contracts for a pay bump. But as it stands now most of them werent even top 25 players last year and are getting a huge pay bump just by being part of our top 30. Why would Gus give them more again when we have pressure on our cap?

Yeah mate, put your stats away, not interested.
Fact is, it's club policy to spread the cap more evenly than others do.

 

[mxlegend99]

Yeah mate, put your stats away, not interested.
Fact is, it's club policy to spread the cap more evenly than others do.

You're full of shit. You saying something doesn't make it a fact.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Yeah mate, put your stats away, not interested.
Fact is, it's club policy to spread the cap more evenly than others do.

So we’re giving rookies bigger deals, why?!

We have 10 guys in our squad that are pretty much no names, if they’re receiving anything more than minimum or close to it, that’s mismanagement.

 

[mxlegend99]

So we’re giving rookies bigger deals, why?!

We have 10 guys in our squad that are pretty much no names, if they’re receiving anything more than minimum or close to it, that’s mismanagement.

Because Gus is all about overpaying nobodies at the expense of having a stronger top squad.

Goes 100% against what Gus said about managing the salary cap also. You start with the spine. Then yhe forwards etc.

Not you overpay rookies and see what's left for the rest.

 

[Big Mick]

Corey Waddell
Jack Hetherington
Kaide Ellis
Nick Lui Toso
Wayde Egan
Jerome Luai
Jed Cartwright

These guys have 10 or less:
Tyone Philips
Christin Crichton (im giving him one game in advance)
Tyrone May

You then have Moses Leota and Sione Katoa with 15 and 13 games.

Mate...come on...be real. Do you really believe Egan and May re-signed for the minimum "Just to be in our top 30". Both were being chased by multiple clubs last year. Soon as May debuted you add at least 100-120k to his contract because that's the business. If you don't, you lose them. Same goes for CHN...in fact for CHN it was add 200k.

Egan was in NYC team of the year and in this age of hookers being vitally important to build around...he was a hot property. I know at least 3 clubs offering him 175k+ last year before re-signing with us.

Jed was chased by Manly so he'd be on just above Minimum while Kaide Ellis is off contract this year along with Oliver Clark and Liam Martin and those will be tough to re-sign as other clubs are already sniffing around them - Especially if any of them debut and go ok on debut. You'd assume of those Ellis will debut at some stage.

But thing is...if we lost these guys...these young prospects that you feel aren't valuable right now or should be only the minimum....then you'd be the first one here blaming Gus losing those guys at the expense of keeping guys like Browne and Tamou. Be honest with yourself for a second...and tell me you wouldn't?

Now, the reality of the situation is that we have a lot of guys off contract this year and next that will need to be kept. Waqa, RCG, Cleary top the list while guys like Ellis, CHN, May, Egan etc will be all due extensions soon enough after as they signed 2 year deals mostly. Obviously the priorities will be Cleary, RCG and Egan in that list due to spine/middle forward priority.

We had saved some money by getting rid of Carty while Peach's 300k will go towards Cleary also.

I think we need to realise that Mansour, unless something changes, will likely not be here next year. I'd love him to stay but I don't think it's fair for him to sacrifice any more money. If he does though...along with getting long service discount if Sam retires...then great.

Tamou wont be re-signed post current deal which runs out 2020 I believe and likely shipped 1 year early and possibly Merrin and Maloney also. This will be to clear the decks for Cleary contract for 2020 and beyond.

The question is this - Will all of this movement and cap management be worth it? Because if Cleary doesn't re-sign...then we may have set our team back 5 years.

 

[mxlegend99]

Mate...come on...be real. Do you really believe Egan and May re-signed for the minimum "Just to be in our top 30". Both were being chased by multiple clubs last year. Soon as May debuted you add at least 100-120k to his contract because that's the business. If you don't, you lose them. Same goes for CHN...in fact for CHN it was add 200k.

Egan was in NYC team of the year and in this age of hookers being vitally important to build around...he was a hot property. I know at least 3 clubs offering him 175k+ last year before re-signing with us.

Jed was chased by Manly so he'd be on just above Minimum while Kaide Ellis is off contract this year along with Oliver Clark and Liam Martin and those will be tough to re-sign as other clubs are already sniffing around them - Especially if any of them debut and go ok on debut. You'd assume of those Ellis will debut at some stage.

But thing is...if we lost these guys...these young prospects that you feel aren't valuable right now or should be only the minimum....then you'd be the first one here blaming Gus losing those guys at the expense of keeping guys like Browne and Tamou. Be honest with yourself for a second...and tell me you wouldn't?

Now, the reality of the situation is that we have a lot of guys off contract this year and next that will need to be kept. Waqa, RCG, Cleary top the list while guys like Ellis, CHN, May, Egan etc will be all due extensions soon enough after as they signed 2 year deals mostly. Obviously the priorities will be Cleary, RCG and Egan in that list due to spine/middle forward priority.

We had saved some money by getting rid of Carty while Peach's 300k will go towards Cleary also.

I think we need to realise that Mansour, unless something changes, will likely not be here next year. I'd love him to stay but I don't think it's fair for him to sacrifice any more money. If he does though...along with getting long service discount if Sam retires...then great.

Tamou wont be re-signed post current deal which runs out 2020 I believe and likely shipped 1 year early and possibly Merrin and Maloney also. This will be to clear the decks for Cleary contract for 2020 and beyond.

The question is this - Will all of this movement and cap management be worth it? Because if Cleary doesn't re-sign...then we may have set our team back 5 years.

Why dont you be real for a minute.

You have one game turning guys outside our top 25 into $250k players. Meanwhile you have Peachey on $300k.guys eithout an NRL game to yheir name on double the minimum wage

So apparently no one is worth minimum wage anymore.

I also didnt say all of them were on minimum wage. But youre kidding yourself if you think weve got 10 rookies in our top 30 earning much more than the minimum wage.

Half those players will not play this year if we can help it. We only have a top 30 because those are the rules. Before that 5 of ghose guys werent even top squad players. You think we added 5 guys and then decided f**k it lets give them an even bigger payrise.

Edit
And ofcourse Id be pissed at anyone lost because of Tamou and Browne. I was pissed off we ever signed them to begin with.

Knowing we had a contract for Browne and let Latimore, Matagi and Akauolo walk pissed me off. Moreso with Tamou knowing his huge salary pushes out more players.

Our cap is maxed out for 2019 having released a bunch of players and likely not keeping Mansour. I blame ridiculous overs to Tamou for that.

 

[umina panther]

Great post Mick good to see you back

 

[Big Mick]

You have one game turning guys outside our top 25 into $250k players. Meanwhile you have Peachey on $300k.guys eithout an NRL game to yheir name on double the minimum wage

So apparently no one is worth minimum wage anymore.

I also didnt say all of them were on minimum wage. But youre kidding yourself if you think weve got 10 rookies in our top 30 earning much more than the minimum wage.
.

I meant saving 300k NET on Peach...as in replacing him with a minimum.

I'm also not saying that one game turns guys into 250k players. A season playing did that for CHN...he got offered 350k at the Tigers. So if you think he stays for 200k....And the fact is that other teams overvalue our young guys...which makes them hard to keep.

As for rookies...they may be on minimum right now...guys like Ellis for this years cap absolutely...but my point is they are off-contract this year or next. If they debut...you don't get to keep them for less than 125-150k. Especially if their debut is ok.

There are definitely minimum wage guys...but what you are not understanding from my post is that soon as these guys play...and they play ok...they wont be minimum any more. And most of them are off-contract this year or next which makes managing the cap very tricky.

 

[Big Mick]

Great post Mick good to see you back

Cheers mate. Been reading but not posting as much lately.

 

[The Realist]

In regards to Big Mick's valuations of players and the likely resigning's and losses, all that I can say is that it is VERY close to the mark. I have no idea how Big Mick knows this stuff, might have the same source I do but damn he is close.

The only thing I am going to add is that MAYBE we will offload one of the big named forwards, but I got my mail before Cartwright left and he was one of the three names mentioned.

I expect to lose one of our wingers probably Mansour BUT that is not necessarily the case. DWZ is apparently on 'fullback money' because when we extended him he was expected to slot into FB (plan was to always get Moylan into the Halves) however management did not anticipate the emergence of a mature alternative (Edwards) so quickly.

There is a bit more that you guy's should be able (And sometimes do) to guess but that's all I will add ATM.

 

[Vicpanther]

While on the subject of the cap is it possible for peaches to do a backflip or has that time period passed. Seems a little weird for him to leave. I know he has a young family to worry about but he always seems to be one of the happiest on social media.

 

[OldPanther]

While on the subject of the cap is it possible for peaches to do a backflip or has that time period passed. Seems a little weird for him to leave. I know he has a young family to worry about but he always seems to be one of the happiest on social media.

There's a 10 day cooling off period I think.