idris or jennings

[typicalfan]

.

Believe it or not, Idris was also the better defender if stats are to be believed.

Helps your stats when El Masri and Kimmorley are on your side of the park and are probably some of the best defenders in their position in terms of reading the defense and not being caught out of position.

I think Idris potentially could be better than Croker, hell even Sailor reckons he will surpass Folau which is a rap and a half.

But Idris has definitely got a long way to go to reach that level. Croker is already a much better positional player and seems to play within himself something Idris may never have.

 

[Whos Ya Daddy]

Can't believe this is even being discussed.

Jennings is 10 times the player that Idris is.

I'm right there with you.

 

[NAS]

for me its the hype when its completely unwarrented. He was "Rookie Of the Year" when tbh he wasnt even in the top 4 rookies to debut this year, and 2 of them ahead of him play his position - Asyhford and Croker.

For mine the 4 best rookies from this year were Mortimer, Dugan, Croker and Asyhford. Idris isnt close to as talented as any of them. Idris simply isnt the allround player those guys are... Idris's defense is sloppy, he's got ordinary footwork, and his positioining is ordinary. But close to the line he's a hard guy to stop one on one due to the mismatch with alot of centres who are not as big as him.

He's not hated. Just over-rated.

You're well and truly off this planet.......Now whilst I'll weigh into the general argument and concede that I think Jennings is the better player (albeit slightly), to say that Ayshford and Crocker are better than Idris on any day of the week is to simply defy the common sense of all the evidence around you.....Idris would dominate both of these players.....in both attack and defence....have a look at the dogs v st george game last year or the first game against Manly.....

If we're talking young centres, there are a few players who you've failed to mention......

1) Greg Inglis- still only 22. Qualifies.
2) Josh Morris- as much first grade experience as Jennings, qualifies
3) Chris Lawrence- 20 year old.....qualifies.
4) Israel Folau- only 20, qualifies......

And lets have a look at a few other players whilst we're at it.....

Blake Ferguson- Perhaps more talent than Jennings, Idris, Croker and Ayshford....big enough to be a centre....but could end up remaining on the wing.....

Chase Stanley- Remember him??? A brilliant centre who will shine down at melbourne.

Joseph Tomane and Esi Tonga- both are just as talented as Croker and Ayshford, if not more.....

Junior Sau- NZ international...still only young.....

Looking at pure rookies, what about Jared Warea Hargreaves??? Eddy Pettybourne???? Kieran Foran????? do you rate these guys???? Finally, lets talk about a kid that we'll be talking about for many years to come........Kevin Locke......shyts on croker, Ayshford, and Mortimer......Dugan's a talent, and on par with Locke.

be careful about rating your own players (Croker and Dugan) too highly....Both have very very exploitable holes in their games that opposition coaches will look at next year.......Jennings is a remarkable talent, but so is Idris.....At this stage, overrated he is not....He's got the runs on the board.....

 

[Panther_Daz]

1) Greg Inglis- still only 22. Qualifies.
2) Josh Morris- as much first grade experience as Jennings, qualifies
3) Chris Lawrence- 20 year old.....qualifies.
4) Israel Folau- only 20, qualifies......

Every one of the ages you mentioned here are wrong.

 

[Raider_69]

You're well and truly off this planet.......Now whilst I'll weigh into the general argument and concede that I think Jennings is the better player (albeit slightly), to say that Ayshford and Crocker are better than Idris on any day of the week is to simply defy the common sense of all the evidence around you.....Idris would dominate both of these players.....in both attack and defence....have a look at the dogs v st george game last year or the first game against Manly.....

Firstly, im not even going to bother going through this, the fact you think Jennings is only slightly better than Idris speaks volumes of your eye for talent. Croker is without a doubt a superior player at this stage of their careers. And i think 90% of RL watchers who arent Raiders or Dogs fans would agree with me. The evidence is in Crokers favour. As is popular opinion.

If we're talking young centres, there are a few players who you've failed to mention......

1) Greg Inglis- still only 22. Qualifies.
2) Josh Morris- as much first grade experience as Jennings, qualifies
3) Chris Lawrence- 20 year old.....qualifies.
4) Israel Folau- only 20, qualifies......

All have debuted already and have established themselves in the NRL, i was quite clearly, and so clearly infact i specified that it was rookie centres i was refering too. Not young centres. And your ages are wrong.

And lets have a look at a few other players whilst we're at it.....

Blake Ferguson- Perhaps more talent than Jennings, Idris, Croker and Ayshford....big enough to be a centre....but could end up remaining on the wing.....

Chase Stanley- Remember him??? A brilliant centre who will shine down at melbourne.

Joseph Tomane and Esi Tonga- both are just as talented as Croker and Ayshford, if not more.....

Junior Sau- NZ international...still only young.....

Sau ive always had a wrap on and definitely deserves mention in this topic, Esi Tonga too, who is a good young player but imo, not as good as Ayshford, Sau, Tonga or Croker. Stanley is talented by doenst have the runs on the board like the ones i've mentioned, including Idris, looking forward to seeing him go at Melbourne.
Fergerson ill conceed on aswell. Very good young player, easy to forget a bloke like him. But imo, he's not quite as good as the others in this thread, he's a good player none the less though

Looking at pure rookies, what about Jared Warea Hargreaves??? Eddy Pettybourne???? Kieran Foran????? do you rate these guys???? Finally, lets talk about a kid that we'll be talking about for many years to come........Kevin Locke......shyts on croker, Ayshford, and Mortimer......Dugan's a talent, and on par with Locke.

I was refering to outside backs, mainly centres. Which means Pettybourne, Hargreaves, Foran have no place in this discussion. Although i rate them all highly. Locke is another guy im a huge wrap on but not really a place in a discussion about rookie centres. I only mentioned Dugan and Mortimer because one of them should have won ROTY ahead of Idris.

be careful about rating your own players (Croker and Dugan) too highly....Both have very very exploitable holes in their games that opposition coaches will look at next year.......Jennings is a remarkable talent, but so is Idris.....At this stage, overrated he is not....He's got the runs on the board.....

Idris has some runs on the board. Not as many as Croker. And the holes in his game are far more explotive than either Croker or Ayshfords. And the other two mentioned do not rely on size mismatches to create plays. Idris didnt beat a single guy this year with anything other than sheer size and power. He's got no footwork, his speed is average, his vision is average. He is a guy who takes the ball, runs into players and banks on being bigger than them to break the line. Croker and Asyhford can do that in some instances, they can also beat you with footwork, speed, change of direction and footballing smarts... all things Idris lacks at this stage of his career

Idris is a good talent, no question, but frankly the guy is not in the same level as a RL footballer compared to a lot of other young centres in the game. Let alone Michael Jennings, who is so far out of Idris's league, they arent even in the same galaxy

 

[Bulldogs_4_Life]

The fact is, though, that Idris IS on the level of Croker. In fact, he is far better than Croker. And he is only slightly behind Jennings. I mean, look at what Jennings had done at the same age as Idris and at the same stage of his professional top grade career compared to Idris.

We're simply going to sit here and go back and forth, but you're far too harsh on Idris. A lot of people are and they can't see the kind of talent he is. I don't know why. Sailor has said it, Sterling has said it, he has won numerous awards including the Dally M ROTY, the George Green medal, he played FG in the same year he played SG ball, he was named the player of the tournament for the Australian schoolboys in 2008 and he has gone up against the likes of Slater, Inglis, Cooper and Thaiday and has come out on top. He is a talent and the harsh criticism of his is not warranted.

He's only a 19-year-old kid with probably 10 years of footy left in him yet he's already achieved so much, but at the same time is getting bagged to high hell for what? Because the likes of Sailor have talked him up so much and he is yet to show whether or not he can live up to that.

Well he's already shown signs that he can and will live up to it. All we can do now is wait for the season to start.

 

[Sleep]

This is a serious thread? I expected seven pages of laughter.

Jennings is a Australian and NSW rep player and a top five, maybe even top three centre.

Idris has raw potential. There's also a chance I could potentially bend Jessica Alba over tonight. It's reaching, but potential is just that a big maybe.

I think he'll end up in the backrow eventually. His lateral movement is awful and he'll get found out constantly if they keep him on the edges against quicker guys.

 

[Raider_69]

The fact is, though, that Idris IS on the level of Croker. In fact, he is far better than Croker. And he is only slightly behind Jennings. I mean, look at what Jennings had done at the same age as Idris and at the same stage of his professional top grade career compared to Idris.

We're simply going to sit here and go back and forth, but you're far too harsh on Idris. A lot of people are and they can't see the kind of talent he is. I don't know why. Sailor has said it, Sterling has said it, he has won numerous awards including the Dally M ROTY, the George Green medal, he played FG in the same year he played SG ball, he was named the player of the tournament for the Australian schoolboys in 2008 and he has gone up against the likes of Slater, Inglis, Cooper and Thaiday and has come out on top. He is a talent and the harsh criticism of his is not warranted.

He's only a 19-year-old kid with probably 10 years of footy left in him yet he's already achieved so much, but at the same time is getting bagged to high hell for what? Because the likes of Sailor have talked him up so much and he is yet to show whether or not he can live up to that.

Well he's already shown signs that he can and will live up to it. All we can do now is wait for the season to start.

Ill cop arguements that Idris and Croker are in the same league, i disagree but ill cop that. But there is no way known to man that ANYONE but dogs fans believe Idris is anywhere near the level of Micheal Jennings. He is so so much better than Idris its not funny, you are kidding yourself.

He hasnt once gone up against Slater, Inglis, Cooper or Thiaday and come out on top. He's given an account of himself against Cooper who's not the player he once was and still had Idris's measure, Inglis would tear him apart so easily its not even funny, and Thiaday and Slater arent even in the same position to come up against him.
You want to see a rookie carve up a world class player, check Croker on Hodges. Tore him to shreads.

Sailor is Sailor, i dont think anyone takes his comments that he's more talented than Inglis and Folau seriously, not even Dell truely believes that, he's giving the kid some confidence in his abilities. Good on Dell, but no one is buying it except niave dogs fans.

Weather Croker is better than Idris is opinion. Weather Jennings is better than Idris is simply fact. He is better, and much better. And the ONLY ones desputing that is a handful of dogs fans.

 

[Johns Magic]

What is? Using a forum with agenda's as a barometre as to who's the superior player?.

No, calling anyone who disagrees with you a low quality poster.

The fact is there is plenty of evidence to support the view that Croker is the better player at the moment. You throwing around sh*tty baseless insults reeks of immaturity. Why don't you save us the trouble of reading that sh*t and just cover your ears and say "lalala" over and over again instead. It would achieve the same result.

 

[mxlegend99]

The fact is, though, that Idris IS on the level of Croker. In fact, he is far better than Croker. And he is only slightly behind Jennings. I mean, look at what Jennings had done at the same age as Idris and at the same stage of his professional top grade career compared to Idris.

Even comparing him to Michael Jennings debut year he still comes up short. Jamal Idris has so far played 23 games (2008 and 2009), the same amount as Michael Jennings played in his debut year (2007). In those 23 games he has only scored 7 tries, despite being part of a winning side for pretty much his entire first grade career. Michael Jennings on the other hand managed to score 15 tries in 23 games in a side that took the wooden spoon.

If it wasn't for his size and ridiculous haircut nobody would care about Jamal Idris. He certainly has the potential to be a great player, but with the body and skillset he has it will be in the forwards.

 

[Jason_(Is_our_King)_Smith]

Even comparing him to Michael Jennings debut year he still comes up short. Jamal Idris has so far played 23 games (2008 and 2009), the same amount as Michael Jennings played in his debut year (2007). In those 23 games he has only scored 7 tries, despite being part of a winning side for pretty much his entire first grade career. Michael Jennings on the other hand managed to score 15 tries in 23 games in a side that took the wooden spoon.

If it wasn't for his size and ridiculous haircut nobody would care about Jamal Idris. He certainly has the potential to be a great player, but with the body and skillset he has it will be in the forwards.

Yep I reckon Idris is going to turn out to be one of the great backrowers.

 

[Marshall_magic]

The fact is, though, that Idris IS on the level of Croker. In fact, he is far better than Croker. And he is only slightly behind Jennings. I mean, look at what Jennings had done at the same age as Idris and at the same stage of his professional top grade career compared to Idris.

Far better than Croker? get your hand off it. I'd have Croker in my side over bitchtits any day of the week. Just behind Jennings? Someone is biased, Jennings sh*ts over Idris. One has played Origin and international football, the other has played 23 games of first grade. Idris will probably never get a gig for NSW in the centres, he's well behind Morris, Jennings, Lawrence and Cooper. He's also behind plenty of other centres. Maybe if 10 or so blokes go down he might be in with a shot.

 

[Big Pete]

No, calling anyone who disagrees with you a low quality poster.

The fact is there is plenty of evidence to support the view that Croker is the better player at the moment. You throwing around sh*tty baseless insults reeks of immaturity. Why don't you save us the trouble of reading that sh*t and just cover your ears and say "lalala" over and over again instead. It would achieve the same result.

If I came accross as an elitist prick then I'm terribly sorry.

If it's any consolation, I considered myself apart of the 'quality of posters' in that I'm not as qualified as players (both past and present) and expert analysers when it comes to determining who is the better player.

Also you cannot deny that this forum (as well as every forum) seem to follow trends. As a Newcastle fan I suspect you sympathise.

I'd like to remind you again that I believe both players are fairly equal if last season was to go by. I feel as if Croker is the smarter player while Idris is the more talented, which is generally what the rookie of the year is decided on.

 

[NAS]

Firstly, im not even going to bother going through this, the fact you think Jennings is only slightly better than Idris speaks volumes of your eye for talent. Croker is without a doubt a superior player at this stage of their careers. And i think 90% of RL watchers who arent Raiders or Dogs fans would agree with me. The evidence is in Crokers favour. As is popular opinion.



All have debuted already and have established themselves in the NRL, i was quite clearly, and so clearly infact i specified that it was rookie centres i was refering too. Not young centres. And your ages are wrong.



Sau ive always had a wrap on and definitely deserves mention in this topic, Esi Tonga too, who is a good young player but imo, not as good as Ayshford, Sau, Tonga or Croker. Stanley is talented by doenst have the runs on the board like the ones i've mentioned, including Idris, looking forward to seeing him go at Melbourne.
Fergerson ill conceed on aswell. Very good young player, easy to forget a bloke like him. But imo, he's not quite as good as the others in this thread, he's a good player none the less though



I was refering to outside backs, mainly centres. Which means Pettybourne, Hargreaves, Foran have no place in this discussion. Although i rate them all highly. Locke is another guy im a huge wrap on but not really a place in a discussion about rookie centres. I only mentioned Dugan and Mortimer because one of them should have won ROTY ahead of Idris.



Idris has some runs on the board. Not as many as Croker. And the holes in his game are far more explotive than either Croker or Ayshfords. And the other two mentioned do not rely on size mismatches to create plays. Idris didnt beat a single guy this year with anything other than sheer size and power. He's got no footwork, his speed is average, his vision is average. He is a guy who takes the ball, runs into players and banks on being bigger than them to break the line. Croker and Asyhford can do that in some instances, they can also beat you with footwork, speed, change of direction and footballing smarts... all things Idris lacks at this stage of his career

Idris is a good talent, no question, but frankly the guy is not in the same level as a RL footballer compared to a lot of other young centres in the game. Let alone Michael Jennings, who is so far out of Idris's league, they arent even in the same galaxy

Seriously dude, you're clutching at straws with absolutely no evidentiary basis....Yes jennings is the better player......that's why he's playing for NSW and Australia.......

But........

Idris did get rookie of the year......He stayed in first grade all year but for a disciplinary infraction.....Jarrod Croker didn't......he played more 20s games than Idris did.....What are the "runs" that you speak of???

The only player that you mention with any real "runs" on the board is Chase Stanley, who played for NZ........so what am I supposed to change my view, why? because you say so??? Come on mate?? help me out a bit...

why is croker and ayshford better than the others I've mentioned....and if you're going to talk about the other players being established, then Jennings is the same......He is equally as established as Lawrence and Folau.....

Young Centres.....Foran is a Centre.

 

[typicalfan]

The fact is, though, that Idris IS on the level of Croker. In fact, he is far better than Croker. And he is only slightly behind Jennings. I mean, look at what Jennings had done at the same age as Idris and at the same stage of his professional top grade career compared to Idris.

We're simply going to sit here and go back and forth, but you're far too harsh on Idris. A lot of people are and they can't see the kind of talent he is. I don't know why. Sailor has said it, Sterling has said it, he has won numerous awards including the Dally M ROTY, the George Green medal, he played FG in the same year he played SG ball, he was named the player of the tournament for the Australian schoolboys in 2008 and he has gone up against the likes of Slater, Inglis, Cooper and Thaiday and has come out on top. He is a talent and the harsh criticism of his is not warranted.

He's only a 19-year-old kid with probably 10 years of footy left in him yet he's already achieved so much, but at the same time is getting bagged to high hell for what? Because the likes of Sailor have talked him up so much and he is yet to show whether or not he can live up to that.

Well he's already shown signs that he can and will live up to it. All we can do now is wait for the season to start.

Idris isn't even the best young centre in your club imo.

I would rate Jennings ahead of Morris, it is close and Morris is an outstanding talent but I don't think Idris is anywhere near either of them. Mind you he is 19 and has time on his side.

Schoolboy achievements are nice on the resume but mean little in the big time. Unless Idris gets some other skill set apart from run and barge he will struggle because all players at this level are powerful. Preston Campbell laid out 3 forwards in a row in the All Stars game for example.

When Inglis came into grade he was elusive, strong and had the best fend since Big Mal. Jamal Idris has zero agility, plenty of strength and very very raw.

 

[Bulldogs_4_Life]

Weather Croker is better than Idris is opinion. Weather Jennings is better than Idris is simply fact. He is better, and much better. And the ONLY ones desputing that is a handful of dogs fans.

I agree. Which is why I've stated severel times Jennings has it all over Idris. But Idris isn't going to be too far off by the end of this year me thinks. TBH both are different kinds of players so comparing them is silly.

But Jennings is far better, I agree.

 

[typicalfan]

Idris by the time he fills out will be bigger than Folau or Inglis though. But not a better natural athlete.

 

[Bulldogs_4_Life]

He was a world ranked athlete who gave up the Olympics to play League. He has a lot of natural ability, way more than anyone would imagine given his size. And once he looses the baby fat he'll be able to show it even more. I'm not saying he'll be the greatest skill machine the games ever seen, so don't go putting words into my mouth. But he'll improve out of sight.

I don't think he'll move into the forwards. If he does, it won't be until late in his career. He could be moulded into one of the top centres and I can't see him moving, especially when we have a plethora of back rower already.

 

[Raider_69]

Seriously dude, you're clutching at straws with absolutely no evidentiary basis....Yes jennings is the better player......that's why he's playing for NSW and Australia.......

But........

Idris did get rookie of the year......He stayed in first grade all year but for a disciplinary infraction.....Jarrod Croker didn't......he played more 20s games than Idris did.....What are the "runs" that you speak of???

The only player that you mention with any real "runs" on the board is Chase Stanley, who played for NZ........so what am I supposed to change my view, why? because you say so??? Come on mate?? help me out a bit...

why is croker and ayshford better than the others I've mentioned....and if you're going to talk about the other players being established, then Jennings is the same......He is equally as established as Lawrence and Folau.....

Young Centres.....Foran is a Centre.

I've come the conclusion you are complete off the this planet.
Ayshford and Croker are better because they dont need physical mismatches to make an impact, they have a RL skills set that allows them to dominate oppositions with those skills, instead of making an impact without any real RL skill set other than size. Which is what Idris has.
They both have assets that make them dangerous in all situations in attack and defensively, whilst not having the same size, they are better positionally and technique wise.

Over all, in every facet of the a centres game that doesnt involved 5 metre barge overs, Croker and Ayshford are just simply more skillful and talented players. Thats not to say Idris isnt talented, but imo, and it appears in a lot, Idris has too many glaring faults to his game.

And his ROTY award was universially agreed as a joke. Which is not surprising given the Dally M's have been a complete joke for many years now. I hardly view that as an indicator of anything. Last year Colin Best was Dally M winger of the year. He had a super year but does anyone, even Raiders fans think that award means he was the best in his field? No.

Its interesting though, isnt it? You've got dogs fans and big pete suggesting Idris is better, thats it. And then you've got Knights fans and Tigers fans, and the general population, typically people who love to sh*t on the Raiders saying Croker is by far better. I dont know, i tend to think the people of LU when in a general concensus agree on something, very rarely get wrong.

But I dont need to convince you, because i couldnt care less, your happy with Idris and im happy with Croker, i know which one is the better player right now, and it appears so does most of the LU population. That may not be the case in 2010. Or for the rest of their careers, but as it stands right now, i think 90% of people would sign Jared Croker before Jamal Idris if they had the choice.

And if i was wrong about Foran fogive me but as i understand it, he played centre yes, but he played U20's and is viewed long term as a half, not centre. Happy to be corrected though.

And if you agree that Idris cant hold a candle to Jennings, then just say that and move on, and stop embarrassing yourself. You and some of fan base suggesting Idris is even in the same time zone as Jennings are completely deluded.

 

[slammingsam]

I agree Croker is an awesome prospect - one of the best.
But Ayshford ? Average written all over him..dont know what you blokes are fapping over.