moltz staying

[Magpies Forever]

Have to say as a WT fan I'm disgusted with WT raising this now. They should be ashamed of themselves in this instance. This was not raised when Moltzen signed with Saints in good faith that his release was granted by WT. Now WT, and Moltzen apparently, want to go back on the deal.

ALL BECAUSE LUI F****'D UP BIG TIME, WT want to keep Moltzen now. He was on the outer wiht Sheens and would never get a shot at halfback whilst Sheens drew breathe and Lui was there, got punted to utility role and got slotted into fullback where he did OK. Moltzen was told to look elsewhere for 2012 for better offers as his futire at WT was either bench utility or somewhere in the backline- anywhere except halfback. He did and Saints make a good offer which he accepted.

Stick wiht it Moltzen- the one thing you have above everything else, before and after football, is your word and reputation. Dont loose it for this (and any promises Sheens may make). Go to Saints and unfortunately argue against the WT stance.

 

[Magpie Tragic]

I'm confused, and not for the first time.
What do we REALLY know about all this Moltzen scenario...
A) What comes first, his 2012 contract with WT, or a contract he signed with with SGI mid season??? Surely a current contract overrides a subsequent contract!!!
B) Has this all come about because of Lui's mad Monday behaviour????
Moltzen hasn't played half for ages, so what has Lui got to do with Moltzen???
C) A lot of talk about WT only raising the option of Moltzen staying because of Lui's pending flick from the club??? He hasn't been flicked (yet) to my knowledge???
D) Did WT "not" raise this issue mid season in order to keep a lid on the already turbulent times with Gibbs/Fafita/Moltzen etc going & talk of Heighno & Ryan going also??? Makes sense to me !!!!

I guess only time will tell, but until then it gives WT & SGI LU posters plenty to bitch about:crazy:

 

[Das Hassler]

what I don't understand is the fact that this hit the press on Oct the 5th yet 3 months ago on Jul 8th, the Dragons announced the signing http://www.dragons.com.au/default.aspx?s=article-display&id=38949 .

Surely if he wanted out this would have been raised earlier (and prior to semi's)? Looking at the Tigers official statement, it is also confusing (to me)
http://www.weststigers.com.au/default.aspx?s=article-display&id=44312&title=statement-on-tim-moltzen

So again, why has it taken so long for all of this to come out?

If I was a Dragon, I wouldn't want him as surely it appears that he doesn't (now) want to be there.

Can only assume that Lui is well and truly on the out and will be heading to the Cowboys (gee he will improve heaps playing along side JT), Souths (where he won't learn a thing playing inside JS)

Interesting off season and it's not 7 days old yet.

Maybe worth re-reading this part.."At the time, Tigers chief executive Stephen Humphreys accused the Dragons of being arrogant and disrespectful, claiming they announced the signing without his club's knowledge.
Dragons' chief executive Peter Doust hit back, saying they were bemused at the comments and that they had acted in good faith"

remember back in July the Tigers accused Saints of announcing his signing (without their knowledge) just prior to the match between the clubs so as to destabilize the Tigers preperation for the match... well i'd hazard a guess that all parties concerned have known very well that the tigers have had this one up their sleeve ever since if the Tigers needed him for another year..well.. i'd imagine Humphries could (justifiably ) care less about announcing it at a time that suits the Dragons..they sure didn't announce his signing at a time that suited us ...if it has destabilized them in their preparations for next year then tough s--t

 

[Vicious]

Look Moltzen was signed as a good back up for Kyle Stanley so that we don't go through the problems we had during last State of Origin when we had to recall Reece Simmonds from the mines to play on the wings. He's an important supporting utility for us and he has a job to do in 2012 so we need him and he'll stay.

We are a bigger club than Wests. Try and get Gibbs back from Cronulla or wherever, or one of the reserve grade backrowers you sold to Penrith. They're more in your league.

We`ll see how big a club you are over the next few seasons. NO Bennett, NO Boyd, NO top 8 for the Dragons.

 

[to_ddeath]

We`ll see how big a club you are over the next few seasons. NO Bennett, NO Boyd, NO top 8 for the Dragons.

A bit like the Tigs when Benji picks up a long-term injury.....now hand over the Moltz & STFU....



T.

 

[N.C.]

A) What comes first, his 2012 contract with WT, or a contract he signed with with SGI mid season??? Surely a current contract overrides a subsequent contract!!!

I'll hazard a guess:

The current contract would take priority over the subsequent contract, although the issue of "good faith" clouds this a little.

If the Dragons can convince the Tigers and the NRL (or the courts, if it came to that) that they only signed him after an assurance from the Tigers that we'd release him, then this might stand up. That will depend on the evidence that's available - and a lot could depend on what his manager has to say.

Assuming that there is not enough evidence to support the Dragons claim, they as the wronged party would be entitled to damages for the repudiation of their contract. Damages would be payable by the player (and/or his manager) to the wronged party. They are the ones who have f**ked this up. On this basis, his manager's evidence might be seen as questionable and disregarded anyway...

On the other hand, if it can be proven that they only went to the Dragons after an assurance that the Tigers would release him, then we would probably have to honour that.

If it is proven that he had no release and Moltzen does end up at the Dragons, then he may have to pay damages to the Tigers for reneging on his contract with us.

If either club offers to assist with payment of damages to the other, this would possibly come under the salary cap - this will of course depend on all of the provable facts.

Messy. Bring on chapter two!

 

[hybrid_tiger]

You can have the downhill skiier, take him.

 

[TrigaTheTiger]

Its pretty simple really -

If the Tigers didn't release him - and I don't remember it being confirmed - he stays

If the Tigers did release him - he can ask for an out from the Drag Queens - I suspect they will give it to him, as no-one wants a player who doesn't want to be there.

Sounds more like the former than the latter - if they released him - that scrap of paper will exist somewhere and the drags could end this by simply bringing it out.

Why has this taken so long to bring up? I suspect they wanted to wait until the season was over. Perhaps the Tigers were also getting some legal advice - from experience - this takes a lot longer than you think it will.

I also heard a rumour that a very good friend of Moltz said he was willing to take a pay cut for his mate to stay.

Whether he stays or not - he loves the club and played well in the back end of the season.

 

[Vic Mackey]

The fact that dragons fans are so enraged over losing such an average player is only proving that they know they are shot for 2012.

 

[851]

You can have the downhill skiier, take him.

And Lui.

 

[BuffaloRules]

And Lui.

And Sheens.

 

[N.C.]

Its pretty simple really -

If the Tigers didn't release him - and I don't remember it being confirmed - he stays

If the Tigers did release him - he can ask for an out from the Drag Queens - I suspect they will give it to him, as no-one wants a player who doesn't want to be there.

Sounds more like the former than the latter - if they released him - that scrap of paper will exist somewhere and the drags could end this by simply bringing it out.

Why has this taken so long to bring up? I suspect they wanted to wait until the season was over. Perhaps the Tigers were also getting some legal advice - from experience - this takes a lot longer than you think it will.

I also heard a rumour that a very good friend of Moltz said he was willing to take a pay cut for his mate to stay.

Whether he stays or not - he loves the club and played well in the back end of the season.

A slip of paper is simply evidence of an agreement.

It is the agreement that counts.

Absent that slip of paper, other evidence becomes paramount.

What will happen next?

 

[TrigaTheTiger]

Not at all - its the evidence of the agreement that counts. Obviously, otherwise, its you say / I say.

I suspect if they ever did get a formal release they would look after it, as they would need it to register his new contract with the NRL.

If they signed him and it was dusted months ago, they would have registered him with the NRL - obviously, they havent.

 

[to_ddeath]

The fact that dragons fans are so enraged over losing such an average player is only proving that they know they are shot for 2012.

The fact that the Tigs management is clamouring to hang on to him shows more desperation than anything else. Your club has to learn to let go. Speaks volumes about who is running your show over there.


T.

 

[37916319]

I would love to see how quickly both clubs change their tune should he do his knee again tomorrow running away from a moth.

 

[N.C.]

Not at all - its the evidence of the agreement that counts. Obviously, otherwise, its you say / I say.

I suspect if they ever did get a formal release they would look after it, as they would need it to register his new contract with the NRL.

If they signed him and it was dusted months ago, they would have registered him with the NRL - obviously, they havent.

Er... That's kind of what I'm saying... I think...

If you can't prove there was an agreement, then there wasn't one. Even if there was.

But having something written down on a piece of paper is not the only way to prove there was an agreement.

 

[18to87]

I would love to see how quickly both clubs change their tune should he do his knee again tomorrow running away from a moth.

I read he is off to Vegas. Might do his knee running from a she-male.

 

[StMick]

Now come on boys I know I'm a Dragons supporter and you'll take what I say with a grain of salt so lets call a spade a spade.

West Tigers did not want Moltzen because they wanted to clear salary cap room for Adam Blair so West Tigers told Moltzen and his manager to look elsewhere. The Dragons offered Moltzen a good deal which he and his manager accepted. So the Dragons, in good faith (with the assurance of Moltzens manager that Moltzen had been given a release - verbally anyway) signed him. Tigers grumbled a bit about the timing of the announcement at the time but nothing else was heard. Low and behold Lui f#*#s up again and is all but gone from the Tigers, the Tigers now say they want Moltzen back and never released him.

I know we talk about football being a business but that's pretty poor form if you ask me.

PS And to Tim Moltzen, if you end up staying at the Tigers, watch your back champ - there's always someone coming off contract. They shit on you once, there's nothing to say they won't do it again.

 

[Das Hassler]

I would love to see how quickly both clubs change their tune should he do his knee again tomorrow running away from a moth.

"should he do his knee again tomorrow running away from a moth"

That's a fair comment based on how he was last year after coming back from the previous year off and maybe the first half of this year..his confidence was clearly shot, but maybe it's worth you having another look at him through the finals..those games had SOO intensity and he stepped up and handled the pressure ..he handled the bombs..his positional play was good and he ran the ball back well. If you watch those games again you couldn't fairly say that he hasn't fixed a lot of things that needed fixing...maybe time for people to take the blinkers off and put the past in the past, and that goes in relation to a few other players as well...how long has it taken Galloway to step up and realise his potential and how many wrote him off as terminally "soft" (which he mostly was) prior to this year?

 

[madunit]

Its pretty simple really -

If the Tigers didn't release him - and I don't remember it being confirmed - he stays

If the Tigers did release him - he can ask for an out from the Drag Queens - I suspect they will give it to him, as no-one wants a player who doesn't want to be there.

Sounds more like the former than the latter - if they released him - that scrap of paper will exist somewhere and the drags could end this by simply bringing it out.

Why has this taken so long to bring up? I suspect they wanted to wait until the season was over. Perhaps the Tigers were also getting some legal advice - from experience - this takes a lot longer than you think it will.

I also heard a rumour that a very good friend of Moltz said he was willing to take a pay cut for his mate to stay.

Whether he stays or not - he loves the club and played well in the back end of the season.

If his contracted ended at the end of 2011, then he doesn't need a release, unless he's changing clubs mid-season, which he didn't do.

When did the Wests Tigers extend his contract to 2012? I don't recall that ever happening.