New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Wb1234]

You absolutely moved the goalposts, and you know you did. You've done it again BTW.

It's only a generation ago that Union was competitive in the market with the NRL and AFL, and it could be again with good management, some forward planning, and a touch of luck. But that will never happen because the ARU are too stupid, weak, or a mixture of both, to see that the NZRU is a leech that needs the Australian RU more than they realise, and only cares about Australian rugby in so much as they personally can benefit from it.

Yeah it'd be rough for a while, after all the ARU would be effectively building from the ground up again, but sometimes you have no choice but to knockdown the old dilapidated buildings to make way for new ones. If the NZRU refuses to get on board and allow the changes necessary for that progress to happen then f**k em, they're not doing anything more for you (Australian RU) than sucking every last drop of sustenance that they can from your carcass before they inevitably move on to a new "partner".

To be fair the nzru shared (in part) their tv deal with Australia

they are carrying rugby union in Australia and always have much like we are carrying rugby league in nz

there isn’t the base in Australia for a stand alone competition. There’s way too many clubs as it is let alone more support for minor codes like soccer or union

Australia bring in less tv rights than nz, have way lower crowds and their teams are basically cannon fodder for the kiwi teams

 

[Diesel]

NZ 2 won’t help RL overtake rugby but it’ll take sponsorship away & some money from Super Rugby but a lot from NPC level and that’s going to hurt the NZRU since they’re partly funding Australia in the TV deal and sold 6% to a private investment company in the US that’ll want a share of profits

 

[The Great Dane]

To be fair the nzru shared (in part) their tv deal with Australia

they are carrying rugby union in Australia and always have much like we are carrying rugby league in nz

Yes they could fail, but all business takes risk and as The Great One said 'you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.'

They'll never amount to anything as also rans in a glorified Kiwi comp, so if they're ever going to grow their sport past it's current station it's going to require either A. the Kiwi's support to genuinely attempt to grow market share in Australia, or, much more likely considering the history, B. striking out on their own and making the best fist of it that they can.

there isn’t the base in Australia for a stand alone competition. There’s way too many clubs as it is let alone more support for minor codes like soccer or union

Australia bring in less tv rights than nz, have way lower crowds and their teams are basically cannon fodder for the kiwi teams

That's simply not how the open market works.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Twenty years ago Super Rugby was pulling better attendances than the NRL. Look where it is now.

There's no doubt in my mind that the growth of onionball in England, France, Italy and Japan has weakened the domestic competitions in Australia and New Zealand.

Our game should be using this opportunity to grow the game in New Zealand from the grassroots to the professional level by adding NZ 2 and NZ 3, but they'll just give it to nine small Sydney clubs to piss up a wall.

 

[Te Kaha]

I'm actually impressed by your trolling. It's a talent acting that dumb

If there is one thing you are good at its irony. It's unintentional and its singular, but its there.

So it's certain a second team will see league surpass union in nz?!

it’s a discussion forum

a second nz team is going to make rugby league bigger in New Zealand

that’s unarguable

it’s pretty funny you don’t want to see rugby league doing well against a rival sport which has tried and in some places succeeded to kill rugby league

The only evidence you have to support that is the Warriors. And on history that didn't happen. For a brief moment they had the limelight, however to the actual game in NZ they were the worse thing to happen to it.
What has happened since then.
- players have centralised to Auckland
- regional clubs have died
- national comps have had to be downsized
- junior numbers have fallen through the floor

Added to that the concussion issue and playstation generations since then have made the number of teenagers interested in playing the game nose dive. Basketball is by far the game that young Māori and Pacific Island players continue to play.

And if there are no juniors around then who will fill the teams? Aussie imports. And if none of them want to go to the warriors in Auckland, how many will want to go to Wellington of Christchurch?

You're an idiot if you think a second team will make any difference unless years of junior development is done first, and even then it probably wont be enough. Contact team sports are a sunset industry.

 

[Gobsmacked]

If there is one thing you are good at its irony. It's unintentional and its singular, but its there.



The only evidence you have to support that is the Warriors. And on history that didn't happen. For a brief moment they had the limelight, however to the actual game in NZ they were the worse thing to happen to it.
What has happened since then.
- players have centralised to Auckland
- regional clubs have died
- national comps have had to be downsized
- junior numbers have fallen through the floor

Added to that the concussion issue and playstation generations since then have made the number of teenagers interested in playing the game nose dive. Basketball is by far the game that young Māori and Pacific Island players continue to play.

And if there are no juniors around then who will fill the teams? Aussie imports. And if none of them want to go to the warriors in Auckland, how many will want to go to Wellington of Christchurch?

You're an idiot if you think a second team will make any difference unless years of junior development is done first, and even then it probably wont be enough. Contact team sports are a sunset industry.

We literally just saw the best team New Zealand has assembled in the world cup, at least on paper.
They are getting picked up at a young age by Aussie clubs. Another NRL team in New Zealand will give more opportunities for young kiwis to stay home.
New Zealand is pumping out more talent than any time in history.
15 clubs for them to make it in Australia.... during the pandemic...
All 16 clubs were in Australia.

But please continue with your flawed narrative.

 

[Te Kaha]

We literally just saw the best team New Zealand has assembled in the world cup, at least on paper.
They are getting picked up at a young age by Aussie clubs. Another NRL team in New Zealand will give more opportunities for young kiwis to stay home.
New Zealand is pumping out more talent than any time in history.
15 clubs for them to make it in Australia.... during the pandemic...
All 16 clubs were in Australia.

But please continue with your flawed narrative.

Ah yes the lack of context. the mark of the failure.

The Kiwis team, made up of how many Warriors? I'll wait until you count them, it wont take long.
How come the Warriors can't supply enough players to make a team? Why are there so many second rate aussie imports? Because junior numbers in NZ are dying.
Those kids are running out fast, they pick one or two up and train them in Aussie where there are proper pathways. They play and train alongside kids who have been in the system for years. A system that does not exist in NZ.
And you think adding another team will address the dying junior numbers when the Warriors can't even do that in NZs biggest League market?

You can't be that naïve, unless its fear because junior numbers are also dying in Aussie which is why finding NZ juniors are essential.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Ah yes the lack of context. the mark of the failure.

The Kiwis team, made up of how many Warriors? I'll wait until you count them, it wont take long.
How come the Warriors can't supply enough players to make a team? Why are there so many second rate aussie imports? Because junior numbers in NZ are dying.
Those kids are running out fast, they pick one or two up and train them in Aussie where there are proper pathways. They play and train alongside kids who have been in the system for years. A system that does not exist in NZ.
And you think adding another team will address the dying junior numbers when the Warriors can't even do that in NZs biggest League market?

You can't be that naïve, unless its fear because junior numbers are also dying in Aussie which is why finding NZ juniors are essential.

New Zealand hasn't had a team for 3 years.. and correlates directly with the decline in playing numbers .

Junior numbers are something like 11th in Australian sports, yet it's the most watched sport.
How many Juniors and taking up the MMA ? I guess the UFC are in dire straights by your logic.

 

[Te Kaha]

New Zealand hasn't had a team for 3 years.. and correlates directly with the decline in playing numbers .

Junior numbers are something like 11th in Australian sports, yet it's the most watched sport.
How many Juniors and taking up the MMA ? I guess the UFC are in dire straights by your logic.

The decline in player numbers has been consistent for the last couple of decades! It has nothing to do with the warriors not playing here. You are now grasping at straws. All team sports have been in decline, bar basketball and it is more noticeable in contact team sports.

And you are seriously comparing a team based game with a SINGLE person fight? How desperate are you really?
If anything UFC is more a danger to League in NZ than Rugby is. Basketball is taking the non contact juniors and UFC\Boxing are taking the juniors who want the physical aspect of sport.

 

[Gobsmacked]

The decline in player numbers has been consistent for the last couple of decades! It has nothing to do with the warriors not playing here. You are now grasping at straws. All team sports have been in decline, bar basketball and it is more noticeable in contact team sports.

And you are seriously comparing a team based game with a SINGLE person fight? How desperate are you really?
If anything UFC is more a danger to League in NZ than Rugby is. Basketball is taking the non contact juniors and UFC\Boxing are taking the juniors who want the physical aspect of sport.

So on your previous statement, the player numbers in Australia have been increasing.
The decline in NZ was only very small prior to the pandemic and could likely be attributed to a poor performing Warriors team.
I'd love to have this discussion again when the Warriors have had a couple of seasons back in NZ but I'm sure you won't.

There's 0 chance a new team in NZ won't have a positive effect. 0

All you have is a current state of affairs that includes a country locked of from the rest of the world due to a pandemic.
I'll no longer be addressing you.

 

[Te Kaha]

So on your previous statement, the player numbers in Australia have been increasing.
The decline in NZ was only very small prior to the pandemic and could likely be attributed to a poor performing Warriors team.
I'd love to have this discussion again when the Warriors have had a couple of seasons back in NZ but I'm sure you won't.

There's 0 chance a new team in NZ won't have a positive effect. 0

All you have is a current state of affairs that includes a country locked of from the rest of the world due to a pandemic.
I'll no longer be addressing you.

Of course you wont. You know your original claim is garbage.

The decline in NZ has not been small. That is just a blatant lie. It has been in steady decline for decades.

I have never claimed that a new team wont have a positive effect. Your claim that it will have a "massive blow to NZ Rugby" is what is wrong. It will however only have a short term positive effect without massive amounts of extra funding, which wont come despite with the NRL says.

 

[Wb1234]

Stuff

i.stuff.co.nz

Stuff

i.stuff.co.nz

Loads of other reports about the decline in popularity of union

With the collapse of super rugby and the rise of the nrl of course the op makes an excellent argument

 

[Te Kaha]

Stuff

i.stuff.co.nz

Stuff

i.stuff.co.nz

Loads of other reports about the decline in popularity of union

With the collapse of super rugby and the rise of the nrl of course the op makes an excellent argument

And yet you can't find a single article about rising League playing numbers. Why is that?

Its already established that contact sports are losing numbers.

 

[Gobsmacked]

It is interesting that despite any decline in playing numbers at a grass roots level, New Zealand are providing MORE players and higher quality players to the NRL than any time in history !
Obviously any young kid that's serious and a serious talent makes their way to Australia to better their chances.

If New Zealand got a second team, there chances of making it in NZ DOUBLE..
It literally can't be anymore OBVIOUS.

Only question is Wellington or Christchurch

 

[Te Kaha]

It is interesting that despite any decline in playing numbers at a grass roots level, New Zealand are providing MORE players and higher quality players to the NRL than any time in history !
Obviously any young kid that's serious and a serious talent makes their way to Australia to better their chances.

If New Zealand got a second team, there chances of making it in NZ DOUBLE..
It literally can't be anymore OBVIOUS.

Only question is Wellington or Christchurch

You really are quite dense. They succeed on Aussie due to the decades old structures. They don't often succeed staying in NZ to play League. The fact that the Kiwi's League team at the world cup lack Warriors players in it is testament to that.
That wont change with a second team that won't be successful as there wont be enough juniors or Australian based players of real talent who would want to sign. Again evidenced by the fact the warriors cant sign top level Aussie players to bolster their squad.

You come up with supposition rather than fact.

 

[marshall stalin]

That post was less about the Warriors and more about the U20 comp as a whole and the amount of money young guys just out of school could earn playing in it back then as opposed to being in a rugby academy in NZ.

The NYC salary cap was around $250 k so players were not paid that much as they had squads of 30 or so players - They had to be either in full time employment or full time study to be eligible to play I understand.

Not sure what the salary cap is for Jersey Flegg - Found a document which had the salary caps for Ron Massey Cup ($150k) and Sydney Shield ($50k) but it didn't say which year this was for.

https://www.nswrl.com.au/siteassets/documents/nswrl-rmss-salary-cap-guidelines-.pdf

 

[Wb1234]

It is interesting that despite any decline in playing numbers at a grass roots level, New Zealand are providing MORE players and higher quality players to the NRL than any time in history !
Obviously any young kid that's serious and a serious talent makes their way to Australia to better their chances.

If New Zealand got a second team, there chances of making it in NZ DOUBLE..
It literally can't be anymore OBVIOUS.

Only question is Wellington or Christchurch

The nz test side was on paper the best in the World Cup

and that’s with half their potential players picking Tonga and samoa

the best thing about league is these players pick Tonga or samoa

but union the all blacks steal all their best players

nz is a rugby league powerhouse and we haven’t scratched the surface in terms of players we can produce

 

[Perth Red]

It’ll be at least 20 years before nz gets another team going on current expansion experience.

 

[Diesel]

It’ll be at least 20 years before nz gets another team going on current expansion experience.

Could be in a few years. It’s 50/50 in anyone’s opinion between NZ & WA

 

[Perth Red]

Could be in a few years. It’s 50/50 in anyone’s opinion between NZ & WA

Even nrl isn’t that stupid to look the WA govt gift horse in the mouth, surely?