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New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

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14,028
Is that you John ribot

I heard they were planning on Melbourne in 2000 to replace wests

arko said his biggest mistake was not admitting two Brisbane clubs at once but they wanted to ensure the Brisbane club was strong

if super league never happened we would already control the pacific and be looking at genuine international expansion (America France and sorting out England)
I'm going by reports from people who were involved in the game at the time. I can cite them for you if you like. Neil Cadigan documented the Cowboys' history in the 20th anniversary book he wrote for the club. I have it sitting on my bookshelf. He stated the cost of covering flight and accommodation for visiting clubs was $800k. I've already posted it elsewhere on here, but I'll dig it up for you in another post.
 
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14,028
@Wb1234
@Diesel

20 YEARS IN THE SADDLE NORTH QUEENSLAND COWBOYS 1995-2014 by Neil Cadigan, details how the Cowboys got their licence and why they signed with Super League.

Here's a snippet from page 41.

"An agreement, as requested by the NSWRL after pressure from other clubs, to pay not only for the travel of the Cowboys to away games but also visiting clubs to Townsville, a prohibitive cost estimated at about $800,000 a year."
Here's some snippets from pages 44-45.

Revised applications from the three aspirating clubs (North Queensland, Brisbane and Perth) were due to be lodged by 31 October 1993, to be viewed initially by the premiership policy committee of Peter Moore (chairman, from the Canterbury club), Quayle, John Ribot (Brisbane Broncos), Bob Millward (Illawarra) Denis Fitzgerald (Parramatta), Paul Cross and Paul Harrison (both independent), before going to the directors Arthurson, Quayle, Bellew, Moore, Terry Parker (South Sydney), Laurie Doust, and independent businessmen George Gaines and Graham Lovett. With the league demanding confirmation of a lease agreement in writing by 31 October, the Cowboys had mere weeks to pull off a coup with an agreement between the Townsville and Thuringowa councils to enter a joint venture with the state government and Top End to fund and develop The Willows, finally confirming the Cowboys' ability to provide a Winfield Cup-standard stadium.

The premiership policy committee had recommended only one of the three teams be admitted to join the Warriors, even though all applications passed their inspection. On 30 November, the board met and the media gathered outside the league's headquarters at 61 Phillip Street, Sydney, waiting for word. After each had provided their final presentations, seated throughout the bars downstairs waiting for one of the game's most momentous decisions were Boustead, McLean and mayor of Townsville Tony Mooney; Crushers chairman Dick Turner; and Perth Pumas chairman Laurie Puddy and CEO-elect Gordon Allen.

The Crushers were the media favourites, the Cowboys ranked outsiders and the Pumas the wild card, with it known that the television rights holder, Kerry Packer's Channel 9, was keen to exploit the extra TV programming the west coast time zone would provide.

No one outside the meeting room that day had any inkling about what would happen next: all three teams were admitted, giving the game a 20-team competition. It was a massive shock.

Quayle provides an insight into what occurred. "Ken rang me early the morning the board was going to make a decision and he said, 'Mate, would there be any reason why we couldn't go now with four teams rather than two? Would they be ready now?' I'd suggested to him that plans were always to go to 20 teams over a period of time, but the premiership policy committee had said to admit two and in two years' time we'd look at it again. I said as far as I'm concerned there's no problem in bringing forward that decision. We'd looked at all three applications, and you couldn't split them as far as enthusiasm and the main issues. Perth wasn't a league area but we were looking to the future and had just started to play some games in Perth with good results. We knew what Brisbane was like, we were wary about New Zealand but had admitted them on the strength of their application; we'd made the decision we wanted to expand for television and exposure of the game in New Zealand.

"It was a unanimous decision to admit all three. It was the end of the Winfield sponsorship, but we were in the throes of good television revenue, we knew Channel 9 would support Perth. Initially, we were favouring Auckland and the Crushers and not Perth and North Queensland. It was a very big decision for the league, and a very big decision for North Queensland."
Here's a snippet from page 100.

"It was essentially a business battle that was all about accessing rugby league as a "product" to gain pay-television subscribers. It split the sport in two in such a bitter way that thousands of dedicated fans walked away. Its repercussions were felt far away, and certainly in North Queensland, where the biggest casualty was the Cowboys' favourite son, Kerry Boustead.

Yet both sides of the "Super League war" concede that without the club's board siding with News Limited's Super League campaign, the Cowboys may not have survived. Even the league's boss at the time, John Quayle, who will never forgive the Cowboys directors' lack of loyalty by walking away after he had so supportively facilitated their entry into the Winfield Cup, will now admit that, as a financial decision, he understood why it was made.
Another snippet from page 104.

There was speculation that Boustead was prompted by the ARL to resign and was financially induced. Subsequent to his resignation he was asked by the ARL to promote rugby league in North Queensland and was asked to investigate establishing a rival to a Super League Cowboys out of Cairns. The ARL continued to pay his existing wage until he found alternate employment.

"John Quayle asked me what I wanted and I said I just want to keep my own wage until I could get something else, probably just a few months," said Boustead. "At first he said, 'Go to Cairns and look into starting a side up there,' but it wasn't going to work; Townsville was the right place in North Queensland."

...

The Cowboys, through McLean and Taylor, negotiated News Limited to become a 50 per cent shareholder in the club, and to pay off its existing debts and $5 million to further development of the stadium.
Snippets from page 105.

Bell and a handful of players were recruited the weekend of the round four clash with Canberra In Townsville, the infamous "April Fools' weekend" during which News unleashed its raid and signed the Raiders in bulk while in Townsville for the round four clash. Most other Cowboys players signed alluring deals during a visit by Super League boss John Ribot and recruiter Michael O'Connor the following weekend when the Brisbane Broncos were in town.

On the first weekend, News negotiator David Smith travelled to Townsville to essentially sign up the Raiders at the same time that other News appointees, with almost military precision, were despatched around the country on a secret signing mission to capture players from Cronulla and Reds (in Perth), Broncos (in Brisbane), Canterbury and Auckland (Sydney) and Canberra (Townsville). Newcastle Knights players were to follow. It would become known as the April Fools' weekend blitzkrieg.

...

Bell said he was told Tim Sheens had recommended him to News and he had to sign before he left the room if he wanted to join Super League, and they handed him a $10,000 cheque as an incentive. But he refused to sign and called his father and told them he wanted to discuss it with him and his accountant, Michael Searle (later founding managing director of Gold Coast Titans), and think about it overnight. Despite the intimidation, Bell focussed on that night's game against the Raiders but signed the next day.

He said Smith told him that News wanted to get the Cowboys but it wasn't crucial, and if the club did not align itself with Super League News would set up a franchise in Cairns. However, they wanted to sign four or five Cowboys players and asked who he recommended. Bell's memory is a little vague but the five players who signed that weekend were reputed to be Dean Schifilliti, Jason Martin, Adrian Vowles, Ian Russell and Wayne Sing, who would end up being the highest paid Super League defectors.

Bell says he never cashed the incentive cheque of $10,000 and still has it. He couldn't fully explain why he instinctively did so (obviously once he cashed it, it could be argued the deal was legally binding) but for him it was about doing the right thing for the Cowboys and following the opportunity Super League provided, rather than financial incentive.

"The decision was very much about making sure the club stayed; we had great beliefs about the club," said Bell.
Snippets from page 107.

"When News couldn't get numbers they then courted the Cowboys," said Quayle. "Ron McLean and Barry Taylor were the two who led them to switch very quickly.

"I thought it was a done deal because of Ron McLean's relationship with News. It was a hard thing to swallow and we were so shattered in the basis that we'd spent three or four years of my time and doing some pretty hard work to bring them in, and they didn't give us a chance. Ken said in the end, 'Fight for the ones who are going to be loyal,' but it was tough no matter what

"There is no doubt that the Cowboys were struggling for money, and if News went to them and said, 'Don't worry, we'll underwrite the costs,' then in many cases it was a very easy decision for them in that situation. But they would never have got in without us and the support we gave them, and how we stuck with them, and that's what annoyed me.

...

"Their association with News kept them going [after the NRL was formed at the end of 1997]. Perth were brushed quickly, and then Adelaide. Would the Cowboys have stayed alive without News? Well, a lot of clubs wouldn't have. Once the Raiders, Cowboys and Broncos were funded by News, it kept them going as they were guaranteed $5 million a year for five years. There can't be criticism of News from the Cowboys' point of view because they certainly could not have survived in a two-tier competition without that backing, and they were headed for the second tier in the initial News proposal." said Quayle.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
25,965
Cowboys and Perth could’ve refused entry you know lol

most of that is talking about cowboys going broke that’s due to the super league inflation in wages

go back to 95 and things were much different

and it looks like the decision to make the cowboys pay travel costs was forced on the arl by the other clubs

like today they want 2 million pa each to admit png
 
Messages
14,028
If you go back to the nswrl any club that was admitted was basically broke for 20 years

Cronulla would’ve died off and norths to the central coast

this was before wages went super league crazy
We can only speculate about what would have happened. Some clubs came out of it in great shape. Others were treated harshly. It was a very difficult time and an inevitable part of rugby league's transformation from semi-professionalism to the fully professional era.
 
Messages
14,028
Cowboys and Perth could’ve refused entry you know lol

most of that is talking about cowboys going broke that’s due to the super league inflation in wages

go back to 95 and things were much different

and it looks like the decision to make the cowboys pay travel costs was forced on the arl by the other clubs

like today they want 2 million pa each to admit png
Cowboys and Reds were broke long before they signed with News Ltd. The reason they signed with News Ltd was because they were broke. The Cowboys entered the ARL well under the cap because they didn't have $1.8m lying around. It turned out they couldn't afford to make payments beyond June. Then News Ltd came around and offered money to the club in exchange for their defection to Super League. The Cowboys asked Arthurson and Quayle for financial assistance so they could remain loyal, but their request was denied. While this was going on the ARL was playing favourites with Manly and a few other Sydney clubs. Cowboys had no other option but to sign with News Ltd to stay afloat.

You cannot blame everything on Super League. The Sydney clubs set the expansion clubs up to fail. Then whinged when the expansion clhbs accepted the offer from News Ltd. In many cases the whinging was sour grapes because News Ltd didn't want the weaker Sydney clubs.


Kerry Packer didn't give a f**k about rugby league. He was a greedy old bully who was paying the game peanuts. He acquired the rights at a low price when the incumbent holders Ch10 went bust in the early 90s. One of his conditions for taking on the rights was gaining exclusive pay television for no extra cost. This was before Foxtel, Optus and Galaxy existed, but during the period when the fed Gov were introducing new laws so pay TV could enter the market. Don't forget that Packer turned his back on the ARL by signing a deal with News Ltd to air a Super League game on Ch9. He wanted the ARL rights for cheap and didn't like it when News Ltd entered the fray because it forced him to cough up more dough than he was willing to spend.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
25,965
We can only speculate about what would have happened. Some clubs came out of it in great shape. Others were treated harshly. It was a very difficult time and an inevitable part of rugby league's transformation from semi-professionalism to the fully professional era.
Obviously the ones that came out of it in great shape got tens of millions off news ltd to cover their losses whilst other clubs like manly and easts had to cover the losses themselves lol

the only reason rugby league is booming again is news ltd no longer owns half the game and the arlc are in control of the game again

this boom was always going to happen once a semi decent leader came in
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
25,965
Cowboys and Reds were broke long before they signed with News Ltd. The reason they signed with News Ltd was because they were broke. The Cowboys entered the ARL well under the cap because they didn't have $1.8m lying around. It turned out they couldn't afford to make payments beyond June. Then News Ltd came around and offered money to the club in exchange for their defection to Super League. The Cowboys asked Arthurson and Quayle for financial assistance so they could remain loyal, but their request was denied. While this was going on the ARL was playing favourites with Manly and a few other Sydney clubs. Cowboys had no other option but to sign with News Ltd to stay afloat.

You cannot blame everything on Super League. The Sydney clubs set the expansion clubs up to fail. Then whinged when the expansion clhbs accepted the offer from News Ltd. In many cases the whinging was sour grapes because News Ltd didn't want the weaker Sydney clubs.


Kerry Packer didn't give a f**k about rugby league. He was a greedy old bully who was paying the game peanuts. He acquired the rights at a low price when the incumbent holders Ch10 went bust in the early 90s. One of his conditions for taking on the rights was gaining exclusive pay television for no extra cost. This was before Foxtel, Optus and Galaxy existed, but during the period when the fed Gov were introducing new laws so pay TV could enter the market. Don't forget that Packer turned his back on the ARL by signing a deal with News Ltd to air a Super League game on Ch9. He wanted the ARL rights for cheap and didn't like it when News Ltd entered the fray because it forced him to cough up more dough than he was willing to spend.
Cowboys warriors and reds were wanting to go to super league before they had played a handful of arl games lol

remember April 1 1995 ?

packer yeh he was a grub arko made a grave error backing him

he should’ve let murodch and packer fight it out with their money then picked the group that offered the most to rugby league

Arko admitted packer betrayed him
 
Messages
14,028
Obviously the ones that came out of it in great shape got tens of millions off news ltd to cover their losses whilst other clubs like manly and easts had to cover the losses themselves lol

the only reason rugby league is booming again is news ltd no longer owns half the game and the arlc are in control of the game again

this boom was always going to happen once a semi decent leader came in
ARL spent a lot of money signing up players from Roosters and Sea Eagles to prevent them from defecting to Super League.

ARLC has partial control. The clubs have more power than ever. Murdoch still gets what he wants by running negative articles in the press when the ARLC don't bow to his feet. Dave Smith, John Grant and Todd Greenberg were ousted for not rolling over when Rupert told them to. It's how Rupert got such a great TV deal out of V'landys.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
25,965
ARL spent a lot of money signing up players from Roosters and Sea Eagles to prevent them from defecting to Super League.

ARLC has partial control. The clubs have more power than ever. Murdoch still gets what he wants by running negative articles in the press when the ARLC don't bow to his feet. Dave Smith, John Grant and Todd Greenberg were ousted for not rolling over when Rupert told them to. It's how Rupert got such a great TV deal out of V'landys.
You think nine is any better

at least Murdoch isn’t in control of the game where they can sign poor tv deals and take ten million pa dividend out of the game

the growth in ratings offers a future without nine or fox if the nrl desires
 
Messages
14,028
Cowboys warriors and reds were wanting to go to super league before they had played a handful of arl games lol

remember April 1 1995 ?

packer yeh he was a grub arko made a grave error backing him

he should’ve let murodch and packer fight it out with their money then picked the group that offered the most to rugby league

Arko admitted packer betrayed him
Reds, Cowboys and Crushers were struggling financially before the season kicked off.

Yes, the Cowboys and Reds should have withdrawn their application when they realised they couldn't meet the conditions set by the ARL. No one came out it smelling like roses.
 
Messages
14,028
You think nine is any better

at least Murdoch isn’t in control of the game where they can sign poor tv deals and take ten million pa dividend out of the game

the growth in ratings offers a future without nine or fox if the nrl desires
The problem for the ARLC is the cost of producing the games and selling them to the customer is greater than what they're getting from Ch9 and Foxtel. TV ratings and media coverage would drop substantially if all games were hidden behind an NRL streaming app. There would be no incentive for News Ltd and Ch9 to promote the game in the print media. Our game would end up like A-League, Super Rugby and NBL.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
25,965
The problem for the ARLC is the cost of producing the games and selling them to the customer is greater than what they're getting from Ch9 and Foxtel. TV ratings and media coverage would drop substantially if all games were hidden behind an NRL streaming app. There would be no incentive for News Ltd and Ch9 to promote the game in the print media. Our game would end up like A-League, Super Rugby and NBL.
You know pvl bought a production company on behalf of racing nsw? Bought it for five millon when it had assets of 20 million

those 1.5 million nrl subscribers on Fox would be worth a lot to someone else too if Fox don’t start paying up
 
Messages
14,028
You know pvl bought a production company on behalf of racing nsw? Bought it for five millon when it had assets of 20 million

those 1.5 million nrl subscribers on Fox would be worth a lot to someone else too if Fox don’t start paying up
ARLC would need 1.5m subscribers to pay $333 per annum to generate $500m.

That's a monthly fee of $27.7 over 12 months if it's sold as a yearly subscription. If the viewer can subscribe on a monthly basis between March and October then they would unsubscribe after 8 months. The fee would need to be increased to $41.6 per month to generate the same amount.

This is where it is in the ARLC's best interest to build the international scene up and run a six week Test season in late Spring.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
25,965
ARLC would need 1.5m subscribers to pay $333 per annum to generate $500m.

That's a monthly fee of $27.7 over 12 months if it's sold as a yearly subscription. If the viewer can subscribe on a monthly basis between March and October then they would unsubscribe after 8 months. The fee would need to be increased to $41.6 per month to generate the same amount.

This is where it is in the ARLC's best interest to build the international scene up and run a six week Test season in late Spring.
With pre season comp and pacific cup post season it’s getting there

plus they could sell their own ads and sponsorships same as fox do
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
66,860
How do you explain the Cowboys generating almost twice as much revenue than the Raiders from football operations?

Townsville is a smaller regional city than Canberra.

Cowboys
$22.7m

Raiders
$12.4m

You made the dumbarse claim that football revenue is going to be smaller for a team based in a smaller city. Townsville is probably the smallest city to host an NRL team, yet its football revenue is better than all bar four clubs. Auckland is larger than Camberra, yet the Warriors are second last.

Why do you keep quoting this article? It’s total BS.
 

final say

Juniors
Messages
791
That's nice. Brisbane Tigers own $135m in assets and will have access to a more diverse corporate sector in a much larger market that loves the game when they enter the NRL. Your mates mongoloid and The Great Dunce reckon they should never be given an NRL licence.

I wouldn't have a problem with the Raiders if they didn't have so many f**kwit fans telling us that Brisbane should only have two teams and none of them should have links with the BRL. The fact remains that a traditional BRL club, the Redcliffe Dolphins, generate twice as much revenue from football operations than the Raiders. It hasn't stopped your mates mongoloid and The Great Dunce stating the club shouldn't have been given a licence and arguing they've failed on every metric.

If the Dolphins are a failure then what the f**k is the Raiders?
It's just a shame that the Brisbane Tigers are called the Tigers and not based in the Ipswich corridor.
They're neither in a new market or a new brand. They simply have money ...
An existing brand in an existing market.
A perfect example of what a delusion a simply wealth model is when it comes to expansion...
 
Messages
14,028
It's just a shame that the Brisbane Tigers are called the Tigers and not based in the Ipswich corridor.
They're neither in a new market or a new brand. They simply have money ...
An existing brand in an existing market.
A perfect example of what a delusion a simply wealth model is when it comes to expansion...
Merge with Ipswich to become the Brisbane Jets. Problem solved.
 

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