Origin 2013 NSW side

[Big Pete]

Apart from kicking a goal and making a break when Queensland were down to 12, what did TC do?

He was ordinary, bordering on being bad. Given the lack of options, he'll keep his spot but gee I thought he was worse than Soward in all honesty.

 

[Señor]

Apart from kicking a goal and making a break when Queensland were down to 12, what did TC do?

He was ordinary, bordering on being bad. Given the lack of options, he'll keep his spot but gee I thought he was worse than Soward in all honesty.

Farah and Carney were quite good last year NSW were the better team for the most part.

:lol: Like Big Pete said, Carney was awful last year. He provided nothing to the team and over the course of the series was one of NSW's worst players along with Uate.

He keeps his spot because he is a fantastic player and will offer so much to NSW but he provided nothing in 2012.

NSW was on top of QLD for a lot of the series but it wasn't courtesy of their halves and they always looked as if they were struggling to put up points. For example in Game 1 NSW were clearing on top but it was thanks to their forwards. They looked completely lost when it came to scoring points and they only looked dangerous from a few of Farah's kicks.

A passing game does help a running game but if it is used selectively like Slater, Stewart Barba etc not the heap it all on him gameplan Parra have used which fails miserably.

Comparing the Melbourne Storm and the Bulldogs with Parramatta is not an intelligent way to judge the importance of ball-playing and playmaking to a fullback. There are many other factors in this comparison.

Besides, nobody said anything about "heap[ing] it all on him". Hayne would be a playmaking option from fullback along with Carney, Farah and that guy who sometimes stands at first receiver. He can pick and choose his moments.

 

[typicalfan]

TC was the last pass for both Stewart tries in game 2 and he caused the sin binning in game 2 which would have been a try to him anyway. So he pretty much had a hand in all the points in that game so it is pretty difficult to state he didn't at least show signs that he could dominate at origin level. He was ordinary game 1 and not that great in game 3 but he landed the pressure goal and it took a freak field goal from Cronk who himself was quiet up until that point and some outside help for it not to be enough.

 

[Big Pete]

He showed some signs I'll give you that but I just don't think he belongs in the same sentence as Farah or his overall performance was 'quite good'.

I think you're being very generous crediting him for Stewart's first try. Also, I'd give Pearce just as much if not more credit for the Cronk sin-bin. It was his decision to go for the kick that triggered the decision.

 

[typicalfan]

:lol: Like Big Pete said, Carney was awful last year. He provided nothing to the team and over the course of the series was one of NSW's worst players along with Uate.

He keeps his spot because he is a fantastic player and will offer so much to NSW but he provided nothing in 2012.

NSW was on top of QLD for a lot of the series but it wasn't courtesy of their halves and they always looked as if they were struggling to put up points. For example in Game 1 NSW were clearing on top but it was thanks to their forwards. They looked completely lost when it came to scoring points and they only looked dangerous from a few of Farah's kicks.

To say he provided nothing is a little bit of an ignorant comment seeing as he was very influential in the game we did win. He did also have Pearce working with him who didn't really set up much and never really does, unfortunately 7 options aren't something we have a lot of but that isn't the issue we are tackling

Comparing the Melbourne Storm and the Bulldogs with Parramatta is not an intelligent way to judge the importance of ball-playing and playmaking to a fullback. There are many other factors in this comparison.

Of course there is more to it than that but do you not think that part of the reason the Storm and other teams are successful is the way they use their fullback? You would be naive to think otherwise especially considering how important they are to a side these days. Hayne hasn't had the playmakers in his club side like the top teams do so might be the best playmaking fullback NSW has but that isn't the secret to his success because it still isn't as strong as his running game, he is also the strongest ballrunning fullback we have by a mile, and at 100kg he is the biggest we have and the biggest outside of Inglis in the competition. If Hayne is the biggest threat to break the line NSW has then why would you want him to pass the ball anymore than rarely or to set up an outside man? All guys like Pearce or Carney or whoever need to do is give him early ball one on one and he will dominate nearly anyone QLD have to offer in the centres apart from Inglis because as a pure runner he is in a league of his own, as a playmaker he is no better than half a dozen odd halves we have in the competition and there fullbacks that are better under the high ball and safer at the back.

 

[typicalfan]

He showed some signs I'll give you that but I just don't think he belongs in the same sentence as Farah or his overall performance was 'quite good'.

I think you're being very generous crediting him for Stewart's first try. Also, I'd give Pearce just as much if not more credit for the Cronk sin-bin. It was his decision to go for the kick that triggered the decision.

Pearce did put the kick in but if the chase wasn't as on target as it was the ball would have just been grounded a kick is only as good as its chase. Although I would say that is probably the biggest moment for Pearce in the series, it is just a bit of a shame it took his halves team mate for it to happen. Farah was NSW man of the series and was obviously a bigger influence across the 3 games than any NSW player let alone the halves and him being knocked out in game 3 was a big moment but it is a combination that is worth building. Farah wasn't quite good he was outstanding, couldn't expect much more from him really. But I felt Carney under the circumstances was a little better than guys like Soward and Pearce.

 

[Big Pete]

I don't think chasing a ball is really a good measure of a halves skill-set, taking the option and kicking accurately is far more impressive to me from a half.

 

[typicalfan]

I don't think chasing a ball is really a good measure of a halves skill-set, taking the option and kicking accurately is far more impressive to me from a half.

If the halfback runs to the line the 5/8 has to support him. This a bit of an unwritten rule just like if a hooker runs from dummy half the halfback needs to support. Carneys chase was good enough to force Cronk to sacrifice himself.

 

[Señor]

TC was the last pass for both Stewart tries in game 2 and he caused the sin binning in game 2 which would have been a try to him anyway. So he pretty much had a hand in all the points in that game so it is pretty difficult to state he didn't at least show signs that he could dominate at origin level. He was ordinary game 1 and not that great in game 3 but he landed the pressure goal and it took a freak field goal from Cronk who himself was quiet up until that point and some outside help for it not to be enough.

Throwing the last pass doesn't mean anything.

In the first try Carney barely deserves any credit. He caught and passed the ball, hardly a great feat for a five-eight. The player who deserves credit is clearly Farah for orchestrating the run-around play with Bird.

The second try was a nice dummy and run by Carney. I'll give him credit for that. However, one good run that leads to a try for a five-eight over a three game series is a terrible return. Your five-eight is meant to be your most creative and dangerous player. Carney was neither of those things and his entire contribution to the series could be summarised by a nice dummy, a good kick chase and high pressure conversion.

To say he provided nothing is a little bit of an ignorant comment seeing as he was very influential in the game we did win. He did also have Pearce working with him who didn't really set up much and never really does, unfortunately 7 options aren't something we have a lot of but that isn't the issue we are tackling

How is it ignorant? He was the catalyst in one try all series. That is a rubbish return for a player who is supposed to be your primary playmaker.

If the halfback runs to the line the 5/8 has to support him. This a bit of an unwritten rule just like if a hooker runs from dummy half the halfback needs to support. Carneys chase was good enough to force Cronk to sacrifice himself.

Nobody is denying that Carney's chase was good, it is just an inane thing to judge a five-eight on. Daniel Mortimer is a really good support player but it doesn't mean he isn't a spastic in all other regards.

Your five-eight is there to consistently create points. Carney did not do that.

 

[typicalfan]

Support play is hardly an inane thing for your 5/8 to be judged on, some of the great 5/8s of all time are judged on their support play. I am not judging the one play in isolation but it was a big moment in a game he had a major role in us winning. Origin isn't really an environment when your halves have the consistent room to be dominant, even QLDs halves struggled through most of the series and they have a spine with the best players in the world in each position and when Slater went down they bring in Inglis who is just about the next cab off the rank. Look at game 1, one try set up generating an overlap on 12 men, another was the controversial Inglis try. That is 2 out of 3. Not to mention game 1 was Carney's debut, not exactly the best way to judge him.

Anyway I am just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Señor]

Support play is hardly an inane thing for your 5/8 to be judged on, some of the great 5/8s of all time are judged on their support play.

You're not even really judging him on his support play. You're judging him on one kick chase.

You're making excuses for why he didn't create points with his passing and kicking and why he didn't bring his world class running game but you're willing to declare that he has showed signs of being able to dominate Origin because he made a nice kick chase. That is inane.

Support play and more specifically kick chases are well down the list for a half. Especially when he isn't fulfilling his primary duties it seems odd to be focussing on something so minor.

I am not judging the one play in isolation but it was a big moment in a game he had a major role in us winning.

If Carney had a "major role" then so did about 8-9 other NSW's players. The term kind of loses any meaning when you award it willy-nilly.

Origin isn't really an environment when your halves have the consistent room to be dominant, even QLDs halves struggled through most of the series and they have a spine with the best players in the world in each position and when Slater went down they bring in Inglis who is just about the next cab off the rank.

No, Origin is just an arena where the defence is tight and tough so a half has to work hard and work intelligently to find that space to be dominant. Thurston manages to do it consistently and so have other halves before him. Carney is an excellent player and can do it too but he hasn't yet. NSW's forward pack actually got on a roll quite a few times this series and Farah is playing well out of dummy half. The NSW halves don't have the excuses they usually do for not performing.

 

[Maroon_Faithful]

Selective memory mate

The man inside Morris, Carney, was the one responsible for rushing up and left Morris covering 2 men. Happened on both occasions in game 1.

Nah, that's not true. I've got the footage. It shows, as Senor said, that Morris over-committed. He's been doing it for years., as I've shown on previous occasions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htUnKSMMat8

Now, he may have improved this year, but his Origin record so far certainly doesn't warrant loyalty to him.

Morris manhandled Inglis on nearly every occasion they came together throughout the last series. Yes when he bundled him into touch was the most memorable but it wasn't an isolated incident.

lol, okay then.

Considering everyone is talking about putting Hayne at left center it's pretty pointless talking about NSW right center anyway. Dumping Jennings or moving him to the right would be just a stupid

How is it stupid? Neither of them have consistently proven themselves at Origin level. And both are lesser players than Hayne, even in the centres. As I said before, his Origin career has been checkered at best.

 

[Joe's Magpies]

Lawrence is now over his injuries. If he can get his form back I reckon that a centre combo of him and Morris will serve NSW well. It's hard to believe than Lawrence has not played for NSW because of either injuries or picking nuffies like Indris.

 

[Dragon2010]

JMoz should be an immediate step-in to the team. Did none wrong last year and played strong. He'd be one of my centres. BMoz on the other I'm hesitant about. He's had his chances...

 

[gypsy]

JMoz should be an immediate step-in to the team. Did none wrong last year and played strong. He'd be one of my centres. BMoz on the other I'm hesitant about. He's had his chances...

Hesitant about Brett? I take it you didn't watch Origin 3 last season.

 

[Maroon_Faithful]

Hesitant about Brett? I take it you didn't watch Origin 3 last season.

I take it you didn't watch his previous 5 Origin games in which he played as if his hands had been replaced with flippers.

 

[Maroon_Faithful]

JMoz should be an immediate step-in to the team. Did none wrong last year and played strong. He'd be one of my centres. BMoz on the other I'm hesitant about. He's had his chances...

Yeah, but see he kinda did do some things wrong last year.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Nah, that's not true. I've got the footage. It shows, as Senor said, that Morris over-committed. He's been doing it for years., as I've shown on previous occasions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htUnKSMMat8

Now, he may have improved this year, but his Origin record so far certainly doesn't warrant loyalty to him.

lol using footage from 2009? He was bad then but then again it was 3 years ago. Pretty irrelevant

lol, okay then.

"Manhandled" might have been a little strong but he did the best job on Inglis out of any of NSW right centres over the last 7 years. When you are marking a guy like GI you need to focus more on him and let the guys inside make the cover. JMoz didnt get that and coupled with Uate having one of the worst defencive games of his life, the 2 trys to Boyd in game 1 occurred. Its easy to blame him for them, I did at the time too, but watching the footage several time you can see the chain effect of the misreads from the inside men and how that left JMoz covering 2 dangerous channels. Im a huge Uate fan but if it had been Gordon or BMoz on the wing then I think at least 1 of those trys would have been prevented. Carney and Uate failed JMoz, plain and simple

How is it stupid? Neither of them have consistently proven themselves at Origin level. And both are lesser players than Hayne, even in the centres. As I said before, his Origin career has been checkered at best.

Its stupid to move a player like Jennings who has been less effective at defending than Josh. To my knowledge he has never had to mark Inglis on the right and it would not make sense to throw yet another centre into that position with little to know experience of handling GI. At least Josh has that experience now and will be much better for it.

Going into last years series I called for Hayne to play in the centres and most on here said he wouldnt be able to handle it. I still think he can but I think it would be a step down from the 2 specialist guys who really stood up in 2012

 

[Señor]

lol using footage from 2009? He was bad then but then again it was 3 years ago. Pretty irrelevant

Not irrelevant if he is still defending as badly, it shows that in 4 years Morris hasn't improved his tackling technique.

When you are marking a guy like GI you need to focus more on him and let the guys inside make the cover.

How can you seriously argue that after 2012? Game 1 showed that QLD are beginning to exploit the fact that NSW focuses too heavily on Inglis. They used him twice as a decoy to suck defenders in and both times it resulted in a try. Arguing that Morris should focus on Inglis more is just playing straight into QLD's hands.

Just learn to defend properly. Communicate and trust your inside men and learn when to slide and when to move up and in.

JMoz didnt get that and coupled with Uate having one of the worst defencive games of his life, the 2 trys to Boyd in game 1 occurred.

Uate defended like a muppet but their is no way you can excuse Morris's mistakes based on Uate's defending. Uate doesn't force Morris to move up and in instead of sliding across. That is Morris's decision. Uate is forced to move in because of Morris coming in.

Its easy to blame him for them, I did at the time too, but watching the footage several time you can see the chain effect of the misreads from the inside men and how that left JMoz covering 2 dangerous channels.

How was it Carney or Stewart's fault? At what point did they misread the play and force Morris to react as he did? You've already claimed that Carney rushed up, which is clearly untrue so I'd like to hear how he failed Morris.

There are screenshots from both tries in the previous posts, I'm sure they should some proof of Carney's failings if they exist.

Im a huge Uate fan but if it had been Gordon or BMoz on the wing then I think at least 1 of those trys would have been prevented. Carney and Uate failed JMoz, plain and simple

By Morris moving up he left a two man overlap for Uate on both occasions. You could put Ken Irvine on the wing and you'd be hard pressed to stop either of those tries.

A winger is often at the mercy of his inside man. On both of Boyd's tries Uate was put in an extremely difficult position by Morris moving in and leaving an overlap. I don't see how Uate's actions affected Morris at all.

 

[Hutty1986]

Throwing the last pass doesn't mean anything.

In the first try Carney barely deserves any credit. He caught and passed the ball, hardly a great feat for a five-eight. The player who deserves credit is clearly Farah for orchestrating the run-around play with Bird.

The second try was a nice dummy and run by Carney. I'll give him credit for that. However, one good run that leads to a try for a five-eight over a three game series is a terrible return. Your five-eight is meant to be your most creative and dangerous player. Carney was neither of those things and his entire contribution to the series could be summarised by a nice dummy, a good kick chase and high pressure conversion.



How is it ignorant? He was the catalyst in one try all series. That is a rubbish return for a player who is supposed to be your primary playmaker.



Nobody is denying that Carney's chase was good, it is just an inane thing to judge a five-eight on. Daniel Mortimer is a really good support player but it doesn't mean he isn't a spastic in all other regards.

Your five-eight is there to consistently create points. Carney did not do that.

Agree completely, Carney did very little all series. Pearce was absolute garbage, but that's his usual input at SOO level and the selectors seem to think that's okay. Will be interesting to see what happens this year and whether or not either of the Reynolds boys get a run. Maybe he's due to come good, but Carney has been an absolute dud in nearly every big game he's played in.