Origin 2013 NSW side

[Joker's Wild]

Not irrelevant if he is still defending as badly, it shows that in 4 years Morris hasn't improved his tackling technique.

Bullshit. The 2009 highlights show missed tackles, not mis-reads as has been the arguement. Completely irrelevant

How can you seriously argue that after 2012? Game 1 showed that QLD are beginning to exploit the fact that NSW focuses too heavily on Inglis. They used him twice as a decoy to suck defenders in and both times it resulted in a try. Arguing that Morris should focus on Inglis more is just playing straight into QLD's hands.

Just learn to defend properly. Communicate and trust your inside men and learn when to slide and when to move up and in.

So ignore GI when he is running into holes right next to you? Ignore the hardest bloke to stop in the Qld backline close to the line? No the best idea mate

Uate defended like a muppet but their is no way you can excuse Morris's mistakes based on Uate's defending. Uate doesn't force Morris to move up and in instead of sliding across. That is Morris's decision. Uate is forced to move in because of Morris coming in.

The 1st try was pretty much unavoidable unless Uate makes the tackle on Slater before getting rid of the ball. Morris is level with his inside man and Uate drops back giving the impression that Morris rushed up, which he didnt do. Morris had to stay where he was because GI wasnt covered from where he would have recieved the ball. He ran the perfect line to get in Morris's way.

In the 2nd try Morris covers the decoy (Inglis) until he is not a threat then slides to cover the 2nd decoy (Harrison) but Uate comes in instead of marking Boyd. Uate was the guy who didnt trust his inside man and NSW paid the price.

How was it Carney or Stewart's fault? At what point did they misread the play and force Morris to react as he did? You've already claimed that Carney rushed up, which is clearly untrue so I'd like to hear how he failed Morris.

There are screenshots from both tries in the previous posts, I'm sure they should some proof of Carney's failings if they exist.

Yep, happy to admit I was wrong that Carney didnt rush up. It was the extra man in Harrison that he was never going to cover.

By Morris moving up he left a two man overlap for Uate on both occasions. You could put Ken Irvine on the wing and you'd be hard pressed to stop either of those tries.

A winger is often at the mercy of his inside man. On both of Boyd's tries Uate was put in an extremely difficult position by Morris moving in and leaving an overlap. I don't see how Uate's actions affected Morris at all.

Uate hesitated on hitting Slater in the 1st try but it would have been hard to do but the 2nd try he came in to take JT who already had 2 guys on him and left Boyd open. It was a big misread

 

[Señor]

Bullshit. The 2009 highlights show missed tackles, not mis-reads as has been the arguement. Completely irrelevant

I mentioned previously that Morris has a really poor technique. His problem isn't just limited to misreading the play.

So ignore GI when he is running into holes right next to you? Ignore the hardest bloke to stop in the Qld backline close to the line? No the best idea mate

Yes. You have inside men who were responsible for Inglis. They need to make the first contact and subsequent to that Morris can join in the tackle but the initial responsibility lies with Carney and Stewart. You don't over-commit to a player who is not your man and allow an overlap by doing so.

The 1st try was pretty much unavoidable unless Uate makes the tackle on Slater before getting rid of the ball. Morris is level with his inside man and Uate drops back giving the impression that Morris rushed up, which he didnt do. Morris had to stay where he was because GI wasnt covered from where he would have recieved the ball. He ran the perfect line to get in Morris's way.

Morris's problem on the first try is not that he moved too far up, it is that he moved up and stopped instead of sliding. The amount he moved up would have been fine if he had been moving with the play to shut down space to the outside. Instead he has moved up and stopped and only put himself in a position to deal with a play coming back on the side.

In the 2nd try Morris covers the decoy (Inglis) until he is not a threat then slides to cover the 2nd decoy (Harrison) but Uate comes in instead of marking Boyd. Uate was the guy who didnt trust his inside man and NSW paid the price.

Uate didn't handle the play well but neither did Morris. You argue that Morris was covering Inglis but Carney and Stewart were clearly doing that as well. Morris is covering a man who is not his responsibility. By "covering" Inglis he allows Thurston to have Harrison and Boyd out wide with only Uate to cover them.

Both Morris and Uate are to blame for the second try. Uate should have hung back but Morris also got sucked in by the threat of Inglis. Regardless of how much blame you want to apportion to either player I don't see how you can argue that Morris handled the situation well.

He has one nice piece of cover defence against Inglis to hang his cap on and that is pretty much all. Maybe that is better than any previous NSW centre (which I don't think it is) but that is just because they were really bad, not because Morris has done anything noteworthy.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Pretty clear we aren't gonna agree here mate

I personally think he did a good enough job to keep his spot, you dont.

 

[Dragon2010]

True. But no player is perfect. Eh, I don't really remember GameIII. I'd have to watch it and re-fresh my mind. Maybe I missed it. I'm not saying I won't take Brett its a tough one.

 

[Maroon_Faithful]

lol using footage from 2009? He was bad then but then again it was 3 years ago. Pretty irrelevant

That was the last time he played Origin. And it probably explains why. It shows he has a history of it, and he still did it last year too.

"Manhandled" might have been a little strong but he did the best job on Inglis out of any of NSW right centres over the last 7 years. When you are marking a guy like GI you need to focus more on him and let the guys inside make the cover. JMoz didnt get that and coupled with Uate having one of the worst defencive games of his life, the 2 trys to Boyd in game 1 occurred. Its easy to blame him for them, I did at the time too, but watching the footage several time you can see the chain effect of the misreads from the inside men and how that left JMoz covering 2 dangerous channels. Im a huge Uate fan but if it had been Gordon or BMoz on the wing then I think at least 1 of those trys would have been prevented. Carney and Uate failed JMoz, plain and simple

I was calling Uate an overrated hack years ago when everyone wanted him in the Test side, (now everyone's off the bandwagon) but I think it's ridiculous to blame him in this instance. What was he supposed to do? Stay out on his man and let Slater waltz through to score?

Morris plainly over-committed IMO, but we'll have to agree to disagree I guess. And I do think Inglis's quiescence had more to do with QLD's left side troubles but it's incidental. And as Senor mentioned, a strategy to play away from him a bit more. Morris wasn't completely terrible so yeah that's probably better than any other right side NSW centre.

l
Its stupid to move a player like Jennings who has been less effective at defending than Josh. To my knowledge he has never had to mark Inglis on the right and it would not make sense to throw yet another centre into that position with little to know experience of handling GI. At least Josh has that experience now and will be much better for it.

Going into last years series I called for Hayne to play in the centres and most on here said he wouldnt be able to handle it. I still think he can but I think it would be a step down from the 2 specialist guys who really stood up in 2012

Since when am I picking Jennings at all, either?

 

[Señor]

I personally think he did a good enough job to keep his spot, you dont.

I'm not really advocating dropping him, Lewis in the centres is a pipe dream for me.

I wouldn't drop him but that would basically be because there are no better options. I don't think he did enough that he can't be dropped, I just don't think there is anybody to drop him for.

I think Jennings has played better than Morris to date but moving him to right centre wouldn't be any better than retaining Morris.

 

[Hutty1986]

I'm not really advocating dropping him, Lewis in the centres is a pipe dream for me.

I wouldn't drop him but that would basically be because there are no better options. I don't think he did enough that he can't be dropped, I just don't think there is anybody to drop him for.

I think Jennings has played better than Morris to date but moving him to right centre wouldn't be any better than retaining Morris.

But do you honestly think Lewis would have the pace to contain Inglis? The Frequent Flyer would carve him up

 

[Señor]

But do you honestly think Lewis would have the pace to contain Inglis? The Frequent Flyer would carve him up

How is pace the key to stopping Inglis? Positioning and effectively tackling are the most important aspects of defending in the centres.

Lewis has one of the classic, low down tackling techniques. That IMO is the most effective way of stopping Inglis. His fend and upper body strength are brutal but chop down the legs and none of that matters. I think Lewis is better equipped to stop Inglis than any other player available to NSW at the moment. Lyon would be the other option but ...

Not to mention that I think Lewis would still be very good in attack if he played in the centres. He might not be super fast anymore but he still has great strength, good footwork and good ball skills. And his hole-hitting ability is world class. He didn't look out of place in the backline when he (briefly) played there for Australia in 2011.

 

[Hutty1986]

How is pace the key to stopping Inglis? Positioning and effectively tackling are the most important aspects of defending in the centres.

Lewis has one of the classic, low down tackling techniques. That IMO is the most effective way of stopping Inglis. His fend and upper body strength are brutal but chop down the legs and none of that matters. I think Lewis is better equipped to stop Inglis than any other player available to NSW at the moment. Lyon would be the other option but ...

Not to mention that I think Lewis would still be very good in attack if he played in the centres. He might not be super fast anymore but he still has great strength, good footwork and good ball skills. And his hole-hitting ability is world class. He didn't look out of place in the backline when he (briefly) played there for Australia in 2011.

I dunno, didn't they say the same thing about Beaunhead Scott? When it comes to defending someone like Inglis you need to be extremely physical but you need some serious speed as well

 

[madunit]

If everyone is fit and in form:

1. Josh Dugan
2. Akuila Uate
3. Chris Lawrence
4. Josh Morris
5. Brett Morris
6. Josh Reynolds
7. Todd Carney
8. James Tamou
9. Robbie Farah
10. Tim Grant
11. Luke Lewis
12. Greg Bird
13. Paul Gallen

14. Bryce Gibbs
15. Anthony Watmough
16. Tariq Sims
17. Aaron Woods

 

[Joker's Wild]

I love Luke but I wouldnt be putting him out in the centres on GI. Like Hutty said, we tried that with Scott and it was disastrous.

NZ have used Mannering in the centres with mixed results. Has he ever marked up on GI?

 

[Señor]

I dunno, didn't they say the same thing about Beaunhead Scott? When it comes to defending someone like Inglis you need to be extremely physical but you need some serious speed as well

I love Luke but I wouldnt be putting him out in the centres on GI. Like Hutty said, we tried that with Scott and it was disastrous.

I think Lewis and Scott have an important distinction. Scott got fended off like a little ***** while Lewis has the legs tackling technique that would make him suited for the role. That is the reason why I have always advocated Lewis.

I think the comparisons between Lewis and Scott is a bit superficial because the only real similarity is that they are both backrowers being pushed into the centres.

NZ have used Mannering in the centres with mixed results. Has he ever marked up on GI?

I think Mannering has done quite well when he has been put in the centres. Certainly he has done a better job of marking up against players like Inglis and Hodges than most centres in the world have. Mannering may not have been excellent but if Lewis was going to defend as well as him (and I think he could actually do a bit better) then that would be good for NSW.

1. Josh Dugan

If everyone was fit why would you take Dugan over Stewart?

Stewart offers basically the same things as Dugan (excellent positional play, safe last line of defence, good ball running) except he is a far better ball player than Dugan and a better support player.

All Dugan has is that he is a more damaging ball runner and better on kick returns. Doesn't really seem like enough upside to compensate for everything else Stewart provides, not to mention the fact that you're advocating dropping a player who played quite well last year. NSW has enough trouble finding players who consistently perform well without them getting dropped when they do.

 

[Hutty1986]

I'd take Dugan's explosive kick returns over Stewart's casual dawdling any day. Really yet to see the hype justified over either Stewart brother at SOO level, honestly.

 

[abpanther]

Good to see the Chris Lawrence hype train continues

 

[Señor]

I'd take Dugan's explosive kick returns over Stewart's casual dawdling any day. Really yet to see the hype justified over either Stewart brother at SOO level, honestly.

And what about Dugan's ordinary passing ability? NSW ended up using their fullback as a second receiver a lot last year, I can't see Dugan filling that role with distinction. Nor does Dugan have the support play that Stewart provides.

Glenn Stewart shouldn't make the NSW team ever but Brett has played well enough to deserve his spot over Dugan.

 

[Hutty1986]

And what about Dugan's ordinary passing ability? NSW ended up using their fullback as a second receiver a lot last year, I can't see Dugan filling that role with distinction. Nor does Dugan have the support play that Stewart provides.

Glenn Stewart shouldn't make the NSW team ever but Brett has played well enough to deserve his spot over Dugan.

Yep, fair points. I think Hayne should be fullback personally, he provides more in attack than Snake but that's offset by his defence not being as reliable.

 

[Walt Flanigan]

I wouldn't say that Dugan's passing game is ordinary. He throws the odd howler but for the most part it's pretty good. Especially his cut-out passing. There's a reason he was an option at 5/8 last year.

 

[Señor]

I wouldn't say that Dugan's passing game is ordinary. He throws the odd howler but for the most part it's pretty good. Especially his cut-out passing. There's a reason he was an option at 5/8 last year.

Yeah because Furner is an idiot. Tonie Carroll and Paul Gallen have also played at five-eight but it doesn't mean that their passing games are "pretty good".

Dugan is one of the most limited ball players among all NRL fullbacks. He is just like Hoffman and Minichiello in that regard, his strength lies in kick returns and running like a freight train. It has improved from 2010 when he barely looked capable of throwing a pass but he still looks laboured when passing left-to-right and compared to other fullbacks in the game he has got nothing.

 

[mongoose]

Yeah because Furner is an idiot. Tonie Carroll and Paul Gallen have also played at five-eight but it doesn't mean that their passing games are "pretty good".

Dugan is one of the most limited ball players among all NRL fullbacks. He is just like Hoffman and Minichiello in that regard, his strength lies in kick returns and running like a freight train. It has improved from 2010 when he barely looked capable of throwing a pass but he still looks laboured when passing left-to-right and compared to other fullbacks in the game he has got nothing.

No. Dugan has plenty of ball playing ability for a full back. Far more than Hoffman or minichello.

 

[Raider_69]

Yeah because Furner is an idiot. Tonie Carroll and Paul Gallen have also played at five-eight but it doesn't mean that their passing games are "pretty good".

Dugan is one of the most limited ball players among all NRL fullbacks. He is just like Hoffman and Minichiello in that regard, his strength lies in kick returns and running like a freight train. It has improved from 2010 when he barely looked capable of throwing a pass but he still looks laboured when passing left-to-right and compared to other fullbacks in the game he has got nothing.

Spot the guy who has no idea.
Thanks for playing bloke.