Richardson calls for suburban footy to be axed

[AlwaysGreen]

Your assuming that a teams fans all live next to their home grounds.

What you potentially lose in "home" fans, you would gain in away fans because Homebush is in the centre of Sydney, so you don't have to travel to the "outskirts" to watch their team play in Cronulla, Penrith or Manly. I'd end up going to more games in a year, not less.

I accept your last point, a central stadium could attract more fans as they then don't have to travel from say Manly to Penrith but to Homebush.

However, it is a small reward. Losing a packed Penrith park, Leichardt, Kogarah, Brookvale or Shark Park for the sake of a few more away fans filling a few more seats in empty stadiums doesn't appeal to me.

 

[Cee 7]

And of course everyone ignores Doust agreeing with him.

It is the way of the future.

And what I find interesting is people stubbornly refuse to let go of suburban grounds even though they are economically inefficient because of historical reasons. Yet people have no problem with pissing on historical jerseys and historical clubs. We only have 3 teams that exist from pre WW2. And jerseys change year to year let alone decade to decade.

IMO the team and the jersey are the most important thing, what suburb they play in is a distant third. Yet we're ok with pissing on historic teams like we did to Norths, Wests, Balmain, St George and almost did to Souths. And we're ok with pissing on many iconic historical jerseys.

But the moment someone suggests doing away with rustbacket stadiums, everyone gets hysterical.

If your Master Shane Richardson had aids you would still bend over and let him do you raw.

 

[The Elephant In The room]

I accept your last point, a central stadium could attract more fans as they then don't have to travel from say Manly to Penrith but to Homebush.

However, it is a small reward. Losing a packed Penrith park, Leichardt, Kogarah, Brookvale or Shark Park for the sake of a few more away fans filling a few more seats in empty stadiums doesn't appeal to me.

And I suppose individual clubs would have differing opinions as to how big/small that reward would need to be before they would be willing to make a change. Does anyone have any numbers around Dogs/Rabbitohs average attendances for say the 3 years before and after they moved to Homebush?

The other scary thought is that according to Richo (not the most reliable source I realise) that 8 clubs lose money over the year in hosting matches.

 

[Bluebags1908]

If Penrith don't play their home games in Penrith then what's the pont in having a Penrith team??

Souths are the only club in the NRL that doesn't play any home games in their geographical area. Enough said.

Souths left Redfern for the SFS in 1988, so they already had their 'ground rationalisation' before Richo's greedy move to Homebush on 2004 or whenever it was. So he went one step further and moved away from a modern large-capacity stadium in their own area, for what?

 

[age.s]

The lack of a great rectangular stadium in the geographical center of the game's heartland is one of the major things holding the game back. ANZ isn't just shit for a Souffs vs Cowboys 11k regular match, it's sub par for finals and Origin when there's 40k+. It's a shit place to watch a rectangular sport, full stop. Trouble is if the NRL wants to fix it they're going to need to build a stadium in western Sydney themselves. If we got, say 1.2b from the TV deal would 200m be enough to complete the project, leaving us with 1b to run the game? The ground could be rented out for Soccer and Rugby matches giving the game another revenue stream.

Crowd figures aren't going to hit the same levels as the AFL until there is a ground suited to Rugby League in the geographical center of the city accessible by public transport. That's what bred a culture of going to live AFL games in Melbourne (not the "AFL is better live" fallacy), and it's the only thing that will work in Sydney. Imagine a San Siro, Wembley or Bernabeu within walking distance of say Lidcombe or Burwood station. The suburban grounds can continue to host smaller matches against out of town teams. Derbies, finals and Origin can go to the SFS or a strategically located West Sydney stadium.

Sure ANZ would be a white elephant, but who gives a shit? It's not the fault of Sydney RL fans that the government of the day was short sighted enough to build a stadium that only the 4th most popular winter sport of the city would want to use. Dismantle and sell the peice of shit for scrap or burn it to the ground for all I care.

 

[firechild]

Transport to the SFS is fine. Every single train route stops at central and there are frequent buses on game day.

Put this into perspective. The Northern beahces have NO train lines. For the average person on the NB trying to get to a Manly game at the SFS by public transport it would involve getting a bus from home to either Wynyard or a major stop on Pittwater Rd (Dee Why, Brookvale, Narrabeen, etc), a second bus (or train) to Central and then a 3rd bus to the SFS. You're instantly eliminating most of the groups of teenagers who go to home games. Consider disabled people, it may seem like a negligable number but you'd be surprised how many people with physical disabilities support rugby league. My godparents' son has cerebral palsy and is a season ticket holder with Manly. He goes to finals matches at ANZ and the SFS but he would not be going if all games were played at these stadia. IMO alienating teenagers is a very bad thing for the NRL. A few years of not being able to attend matches could be the difference between lifelong supporters of the game and people that become indifferent towards the game and never contribute financially to the game.

 

[Vic Mackey]

Yeah let's make manly play penrith at the sfs, the 3,000 fans that turn up will love it.

 

[Ronnie Dobbs]

In Melbourne, the teams are all on top of one another. They are all inner city clubs within a 5k radius of the grounds, so the local supporter doesn't feel alienated from the club when they play there.

You play Manly and Cronulla out of the SFS and they are no longer Manly or Cronulla.

Sydeny is much more geographically diverse than Melbourne, so 2 stadia does not work.

3 in strategic positions - yes. I agree with that. I also believe that the NRL should have many more double headers at Moore Park & Homebush on Saturday nights and Sunday afternoons. For example, the Chooks play Saints and Souths play the Tigers on a Saturday from 5.30pm.

That would be epic and would condition fans for a smoother transistion, but double headers is teh way to go in my book. Looks so much better on TV if nothing else. League fans don't get to games in general, so 4 sets of fans instead of 2 in a stadium would be a great look.

 

[The Elephant In The room]

In Melbourne, the teams are all on top of one another. They are all inner city clubs within a 5k radius of the grounds, so the local supporter doesn't feel alienated from the club when they play there.

You play Manly and Cronulla out of the SFS and they are no longer Manly or Cronulla.

Sydeny is much more geographically diverse than Melbourne, so 2 stadia does not work.

3 in strategic positions - yes. I agree with that. I also believe that the NRL should have many more double headers at Moore Park & Homebush on Saturday nights and Sunday afternoons. For example, the Chooks play Saints and Souths play the Tigers on a Saturday from 5.30pm.

That would be epic and would condition fans for a smoother transistion, but double headers is teh way to go in my book. Looks so much better on TV if nothing else. League fans don't get to games in general, so 4 sets of fans instead of 2 in a stadium would be a great look.

Without doubt. Not sure why they don't try it mor often.

 

[Ronnie Dobbs]

The lack of a great rectangular stadium in the geographical center of the game's heartland is one of the major things holding the game back. ANZ isn't just shit for a Souffs vs Cowboys 11k regular match, it's sub par for finals and Origin when there's 40k+. It's a shit place to watch a rectangular sport, full stop. Trouble is if the NRL wants to fix it they're going to need to build a stadium in western Sydney themselves. If we got, say 1.2b from the TV deal would 200m be enough to complete the project, leaving us with 1b to run the game? The ground could be rented out for Soccer and Rugby matches giving the game another revenue stream.

Crowd figures aren't going to hit the same levels as the AFL until there is a ground suited to Rugby League in the geographical center of the city accessible by public transport. That's what bred a culture of going to live AFL games in Melbourne (not the "AFL is better live" fallacy), and it's the only thing that will work in Sydney. Imagine a San Siro, Wembley or Bernabeu within walking distance of say Lidcombe or Burwood station. The suburban grounds can continue to host smaller matches against out of town teams. Derbies, finals and Origin can go to the SFS or a strategically located West Sydney stadium.

Sure ANZ would be a white elephant, but who gives a shit? It's not the fault of Sydney RL fans that the government of the day was short sighted enough to build a stadium that only the 4th most popular winter sport of the city would want to use. Dismantle and sell the peice of shit for scrap or burn it to the ground for all I care.

Where would be best? Somewhere within 15 minutes of central and geographically central. Not too close to the SFS.

Thinking Burwood.

 

[God-King Dean]

And of course everyone ignores Doust agreeing with him.

It is the way of the future.

And what I find interesting is people stubbornly refuse to let go of suburban grounds even though they are economically inefficient because of historical reasons. Yet people have no problem with pissing on historical jerseys and historical clubs. We only have 3 teams that exist from pre WW2. And jerseys change year to year let alone decade to decade.

IMO the team and the jersey are the most important thing, what suburb they play in is a distant third. Yet we're ok with pissing on historic teams like we did to Norths, Wests, Balmain, St George and almost did to Souths. And we're ok with pissing on many iconic historical jerseys.

But the moment someone suggests doing away with rustbacket stadiums, everyone gets hysterical.

I think that just confirms how bad an idea this is lol.

 

[Suitman]

Double headers are great as a "one off", but the logistical nightmares of season ticket allocations, sharing revenue from ticket sales and catering, and costs of venue hire would imo make this idea unworkable.
Sydney and Melbourne can't be compared for the reasons already given. It's also been stated that until we start filling the suburban grounds on a regular basis, this idea is just pie in the sky stuff.

Suity

 

[roofromoz]

Why should the Panthers have to travel 41km down the M4 to play 'home' games at Homebush?

A cup of cold sick is more palatable than this. The Panthers is Penrith. 11,000 at Centrebet Stadium has a lot more atmosphere than 11,000 at ANZ Stadium.

 

[Goddo]

The lack of a great rectangular stadium in the geographical center of the game's heartland is one of the major things holding the game back. ANZ isn't just shit for a Souffs vs Cowboys 11k regular match, it's sub par for finals and Origin when there's 40k+. It's a shit place to watch a rectangular sport, full stop. Trouble is if the NRL wants to fix it they're going to need to build a stadium in western Sydney themselves. If we got, say 1.2b from the TV deal would 200m be enough to complete the project, leaving us with 1b to run the game? The ground could be rented out for Soccer and Rugby matches giving the game another revenue stream.

Crowd figures aren't going to hit the same levels as the AFL until there is a ground suited to Rugby League in the geographical center of the city accessible by public transport. That's what bred a culture of going to live AFL games in Melbourne (not the "AFL is better live" fallacy), and it's the only thing that will work in Sydney. Imagine a San Siro, Wembley or Bernabeu within walking distance of say Lidcombe or Burwood station. The suburban grounds can continue to host smaller matches against out of town teams. Derbies, finals and Origin can go to the SFS or a strategically located West Sydney stadium.

Sure ANZ would be a white elephant, but who gives a shit? It's not the fault of Sydney RL fans that the government of the day was short sighted enough to build a stadium that only the 4th most popular winter sport of the city would want to use. Dismantle and sell the peice of shit for scrap or burn it to the ground for all I care.

$200M wouldn't be enough for a 50k stadium. You'd need about $400M.

So if the NRL has $200M to throw around, it would be better spent upgrading suburban grounds, or contributing to suburban grounds with Government support.

Thats the position we are in - the big central stadium ship has sailed with the 2000 Olympics. Missed opertunity there that won't come around until ANZ needs replacing.

The clubs that can realistically play at SFS/ANZ (Bulldogs, Rabbitohs, Wests, Roosters, Parramatta) already do. The rest are too distant/isolated/perochial to make it work.

 

[Frailty]

Because back when those teams got into the comp that pretty much was all of Melbourne.

But just like not all Souths fans live in Redfern and not all Manly fans live in Manly, the vast majority of Melbourne AFL fans live in the suburbs. They get on a train and get to games. There's no reason it can't happen here.

No, not all. But where do you think most Manly fans live?

But that is beside the point. I'm saying the consolidated stadiums can work in Melbourne because even though they all play out of two stadiums, they are all relatively close to where the club is from. Collingwood is literally less than a 5 minute train ride to the MCG, and they aren't even the closest club to that ground.

You can't do that in Sydney. You are going to say that Penrith fans need to have their games at least a 45 train ride from Penrith for their home game - and that is just pathetic. If the AFL were using that understanding - Geelong would be playing out of Etihad, but they don't. They have their own ground.

The same reason GWS is playing out of their own ground, and not the SCG. And the same reason the Suns are not playing out of the GABBA but their own ground. You can't view the NRL Sydney sides as being close enough to just use two grounds.

 

[Suitman]

$200M wouldn't be enough for a 50k stadium. You'd need about $400M.

So if the NRL has $200M to throw around, it would be better spent upgrading suburban grounds, or contributing to suburban grounds with Government support.

Thats the position we are in - the big central stadium ship has sailed with the 2000 Olympics. Missed opertunity there that won't come around until ANZ needs replacing.

The clubs that can realistically play at SFS/ANZ (Bulldogs, Rabbitohs, Wests, Roosters, Parramatta) already do. The rest are too distant/isolated/perochial to make it work.

$200 million would be enough to turn Parra into a decent 35 000 all seater - something similar to White Hart Lane. Parramatta is the most central location to all the west Sydney clubs.

Suity

 

[ratsack2]

and if for some magical reason teams get a couple of extra thousand fans at the game, how much more will they lose when those older patrons dont go ionto their respective leaugyes club, money at shark park is not just about the fans at the game, but also the overflow that go into the leagues club after said game.

 

[clarency]

Stop suggesting we need to "fill the suburban grounds before we move elsewhere".

That idea is dumb. You won't get as many people to a stadium with no decent parking nor transportation.

And people complain about the SFS?

 

[Goddo]

$200 million would be enough to turn Parra into a decent 35 000 all seater - something similar to White Hart Lane. Parramatta is the most central location to all the west Sydney clubs.

Suity

We have Brookvale, Kogarah, Parra, Penrith, Leichhardt, Campbelltown, Cronulla. Split 7 ways, $200M would be $28.5M. Plus some state/fed money, that would be a nice little upgrade to each.

It doesn't make sense to go for a single huge ground for the game. Best off persisting with suburban grounds, but maybe try to reduce the number used by 1-2 if at all possible, and get them all up to 25-30k capacity.

Its the ones that need a complete rebuild which are in trouble.

EDIT: we definately won't see another big stadium in Sydney's west while the ANZ white elephant stands - various organisations (state gov, ANZ bank and other owners) have invested far too much in it to see the NRL completely ditch the dump.

 

[age.s]

Where would be best? Somewhere within 15 minutes of central and geographically central. Not too close to the SFS.

Thinking Burwood.

Any one of Burwood, Strathfield and Lidcombe I guess. All 3 are major train hubs, connecting the Bankstown, Liverpool, Richmond/Penrith and City lines, while Strathfield and Burwood also service the Hornsby line. They're not great places to drive to, but if the trains are set up right it shouldn't matter too much.

$200M wouldn't be enough for a 50k stadium. You'd need about $400M.

So if the NRL has $200M to throw around, it would be better spent upgrading suburban grounds, or contributing to suburban grounds with Government support.

Thats the position we are in - the big central stadium ship has sailed with the 2000 Olympics. Missed opertunity there that won't come around until ANZ needs replacing.

The clubs that can realistically play at SFS/ANZ (Bulldogs, Rabbitohs, Wests, Roosters, Parramatta) already do. The rest are too distant/isolated/perochial to make it work.

That's what I was worried about. A combined lobby from League, Union and Soccer might get the government to tip in some funds, but then we'd likely have to enter some sort of sharing arrangement. Owning the city's premier rectangular stadium outright would be one of the things that would make tipping that much money into a stadiums more of an investment than a money pit.

Pouring money into upgrading suburban grounds doesn't solve the underlying problem. Any improvements to stadium facilities will be tinkering around the edges when you have to spread the money over 10+ grounds in one city. Strategically you're better off having one ground getting big attendances and earning lots of money for the clubs that play there, then have the clubs themselves fund upgrades to their grounds if and when required.