Richardson calls for suburban footy to be axed

[The Elephant In The room]

and if for some magical reason teams get a couple of extra thousand fans at the game, how much more will they lose when those older patrons dont go ionto their respective leaugyes club, money at shark park is not just about the fans at the game, but also the overflow that go into the leagues club after said game.

I could be wrong, but I'm sure I've heard that game-day can often be a lower money-taking day for the leagues clubs because the regular pokie bandits steer clear because of the "footy riff-raff". I found it hard to believe, but I was assured it was true.

 

[sherrinator]

This is an absolutely absurd suggestion that has been made with very little knowledge about Melbourne and the AFL system. The first thing I noticed when I moved down here was out how close all the clubs actually were physically located.

On the eastern side of Melbourne, you have Richmond, Hawthorn, Collingwood, and Carlton all within the space that would be between Darlinghurst and the City. They are that close together. Not to mention St. Kilda, Melbourne, North Melbourne, and the Western Bulldogs (Footscray).

The two stadium system works for the AFL because you have all these clubs so close together that fans can easily travel to either the MCG or Etihad Stadium and it still be close to the home territory. Note that Geelong plays out of it's own stadium - given that Geelong is 45 mins from the City.

I'm sorry that Richo feels like South Sydney fans should travel to Western Sydney to have a 'home game'. I'm sorry for the supporters of Wests Tigers supporters when they have to travel to the SFS in the city for their 'home game'. This doesn't work in the Sydney area, thus why GWS will be playing out of their own stadium and not the SCG - like why the Suns aren't playing out of the Gabba. These areas are too broad to centralise the games into two grounds like they can in Melbourne.

BTW, I guarantee it is better financially for Cronulla to play out of the ground that they own.

So are you suggesting nobody follows these clubs from outside these original inner suburbs?

In case you are forgetting Melbourne is almost as sprawling as Sydney and I'm sure people don't all support the area they live in.

 

[Goddo]

The really sh!t thing is the state government doesn't see ANZ as a white elephant - its hosted major events each year, and has regular tennants and a working private ownership (mostly ANZ bank and peoples super). Its big and versatile with good facilities, can be used for cricket, AFL, track and field, soccer, Rugby League, Union. Never mind that its a soul-less cavern.

As far as they are concerned, its going good. Meanwhile there are lots of little payments to small regional grounds which they secretly wish would disappear.

Ideally if we could wipe the slate clean we'd have
a city stadium (SFS) shared by Sydney/Souths, (45-50k)
a "southern districts" stadium near the Georges river and the Illawarra line shared by St George and Cronulla, (35k)
an inner west ground shared by Parra, Wests and Canterbury, (60-65k, also for Origin and finals)
a North stadium located on a train line for Manly (30k)
a regional Penrith ground (25k)
plus Illawarra (30k)
and Newcastle (35k)

Thats 7 stadiums where we now have 12.

 

[Goddo]

So are you suggesting nobody follows these clubs from outside these original inner suburbs?

In case you are forgetting Melbourne is almost as sprawling as Sydney and I'm sure people don't all support the area they live in.

The difference is Melbourne is basically a flat geographically featureless plain (no harbours, mountains, barely a river) with road and rail infrastructure that is like the spokes of a wheel.

Sydney is the complete opposite to Melbourne in that respect. Its a jumbled mess. Its why central stadiums work well for Melbourne sporting teams and not at all for those in Sydney. Its not just NRL and AFL that are like it. Look at A League - both Melb clubs in single stadium, Sydney will have Parramatta and Sydney.

 

[BunniesMan]

I reckon if those that were making the decisons at the time knew what the future had in store, the 1967 expansion never happens. Cronulla and Penrith never exist, we have enough room for Newtown and North Sydney. 2 more inner city teams rather than far flung suburban teams would have made rationalizing stadiums so much easier.

 

[Digga Hole]

No, not all. But where do you think most Manly fans live?

But that is beside the point. I'm saying the consolidated stadiums can work in Melbourne because even though they all play out of two stadiums, they are all relatively close to where the club is from. Collingwood is literally less than a 5 minute train ride to the MCG, and they aren't even the closest club to that ground.

There are plenty of reasons that what works in Melbourne would not be appropriate for Sydney that have already been mentioned in this thread. However this one about "the suburbs the teams are from are all close to the city" is just crap.

A Collingwood or Carlton supporter is just as likely to live on the fringes of the city an hour from the CBD or in the middle suburbs as they are to live in Collingwood or Carlton. The fact that they don't live near these suburbs is the resaon the central stadiums work.

No matter which part of the city you live in the road and PT networks are set up to get you into the city. People who live on the fringes accept that further travel is the price you pay to live there, whether that is for work, sport or many other forms of entertainment.

If you move from one side of the city to the other, you can still go and see your team. If they are playing notionally home or away, you can still get to see your team.

The layout and topography of Melbourne helps this work, and also is a reason why it would be harder in Sydney. The location of the teams home suburb means very little, even less now with the draft.

Question for those in Sydney: If a family (or young adult who subsequently has kids) moves from one side of the city to the other do they not travel back to watch their team?
Do the kids follow the team of the new area or that of their parents?
If the kids follow different teams than their parents does that make it less likely that mum or dad take the family off to the game together?

 

[Miller was a legend]

Who really gives a shyte what Richardson thinks.

Is there nothing more intersting in RL to discuss than this?

 

[firechild]

The really sh!t thing is the state government doesn't see ANZ as a white elephant - its hosted major events each year, and has regular tennants and a working private ownership (mostly ANZ bank and peoples super). Its big and versatile with good facilities, can be used for cricket, AFL, track and field, soccer, Rugby League, Union. Never mind that its a soul-less cavern.

As far as they are concerned, its going good. Meanwhile there are lots of little payments to small regional grounds which they secretly wish would disappear.

Ideally if we could wipe the slate clean we'd have
a city stadium (SFS) shared by Sydney/Souths, (45-50k)
a "southern districts" stadium near the Georges river and the Illawarra line shared by St George and Cronulla, (35k)
an inner west ground shared by Parra, Wests and Canterbury, (60-65k, also for Origin and finals)
a North stadium located on a train line for Manly (30k)
a regional Penrith ground (25k)
plus Illawarra (30k)
and Newcastle (35k)

Thats 7 stadiums where we now have 12.

Good idea, put the stadium on a train line to service an area that has no trains.

 

[Dragonwest]

I'd go for something along these lines for the long-term interest of the game:

Group 1 (Roosters, Bunnies)
Play all home games @ SFS:

Group 2 (Parra, Wests, Dogs)
Play all home games @ Homebush/New Western Sydney Stadium

Group 3 (St George*, Cronulla, Manly, Penrith)
Play their homes games against fellow group 3 teams and out of Sydney teams @ suburban grounds. Play Group 1 and Group 2 teams @ clubs choice of Homebush or SFS. Option to shift group 3 matches to SFS or Homebush. i.e Saints v Cronulla.

*Dragon's suburban ground - WIN Stadium Wollongong.

I think this is the best strategy moving forward with the ARLC having serious discussions with the state goverment to improve transport and facilities @ SFS and Homebush (including cover seats).

In the short-term it will piss people off (including Saints fans @ Kogarah); but it needs to be done to build long-term large scale crowds.

 

[stevie013]

I reckon if those that were making the decisons at the time knew what the future had in store, the 1967 expansion never happens. Cronulla and Penrith never exist, we have enough room for Newtown and North Sydney. 2 more inner city teams rather than far flung suburban teams would have made rationalizing stadiums so much easier.

expansion would have happened, and it will continue to happen into the future. those two areas were growing areas and it was a good idea to have teams there and 'expand' the comp.

what you say there is just plain silly, which, really isnt too surprising coming from you.

 

[BunniesMan]

expansion would have happened, and it will continue to happen into the future. those two areas were growing areas and it was a good idea to have teams there and 'expand' the comp.

what you say there is just plain silly, which, really isnt too surprising coming from you.

I didn't say expansion never would have happened altogether. I saidthe 1967 expansion specifically. IMO in hindsight that was the wrong strategic move.

 

[age.s]

I didn't say expansion never would have happened altogether. I saidthe 1967 expansion specifically. IMO in hindsight that was the wrong strategic move.

Penrith wasn't. One of the largest junior nurseries, growing area and local rivalry with Parra. We're a strategically important club now as we were in 67.

 

[BunniesMan]

Penrith wasn't. One of the largest junior nurseries, growing area and local rivalry with Parra. We're a strategically important club now as we were in 67.

Noone is arguing that the Penrith area isn't important to the game. But what can be argued is whether that means a team in every corner of the city is necessary.

The AFL doesn't have teams in every part of Melbourne, in fact they're all located in the inner city. That doesn't stop players being produced from all over the city.

If Sydney NRL teams were located closer to each other stadium rationalisation would be much more easier and there'd be more rivalries. That wouldn't stop the production line of players in the suburbs.

Now obviously I'm not saying clubs should be folded now, just that things could have been done strategically better in the first place.

 

[eozsmiles]

Noone is arguing that the Penrith area isn't important to the game. But what can be argued is whether that means a team in every corner of the city is necessary.

The AFL doesn't have teams in every part of Melbourne, in fact they're all located in the inner city. That doesn't stop players being produced from all over the city.

If Sydney NRL teams were located closer to each other stadium rationalisation would be much more easier and there'd be more rivalries. That wouldn't stop the production line of players in the suburbs.

Now obviously I'm not saying clubs should be folded now, just that things could have been done strategically better in the first place.

The AFL teams aren't all from the inner city. They all play at the same grounds though.

 

[bazza]

I think the best plan for the short-term would be for teams to keep their current home grounds with some small upgrades in facilities so that they are decent 15k-20k capacity.

I would like to see a few big games moved to central locations something like:

SFS:
Roosters, Souths - all home games
Saints, Cronulla, Manly - 1 or 2 big home games here

Homebush:
Dogs - all home games
Tigers - 4 to 6 home games
Parra - 2 or 3 home games
Penrith - 1 or 2 home games

This gives about 20-25 games each for SFS and Homebush. This number could be increased as transport improves and/or crowds increase

 

[Pugzley]

f**k no! Centrebet stadium is fine as is. Parking is abit of a hassle and getting out is even worse but it is my local stadium. I'm not going to Homebush for a home game.

 

[Goddo]

Good idea, put the stadium on a train line to service an area that has no trains.

My none too subtle point there was Manly as a niche club clinging to the coast has a limited future.

There won't be any major funding from various levels of gov to get Brookvale into a satisfactory condition for the long term, and there is next to no transport infrastructure. Yet the game needs a club North of the harbour.

How long do you think 12k crowd average in a delapidated dog pooping/walking park (noticably boosted by the odd home game in Suncorp or Gosford) will cut it when every other team grows their attendences towards a 20k average?

Manly need to embrace the potential of all North Sydney or begin looking at a relocation.

 

[BunniesMan]

The AFL teams aren't all from the inner city. They all play at the same grounds though.

Yes they are. Go to google maps and search 'Richmond','Collingwood','Carlton','St Kilda' etc if you don't believe me. The most distant Melbourne team is Essendon, a grand total of 8km away from the CBD.

And having that set up hasn't meant the outer suburbs have become barren wastelands of talent production.

That's why I'm arguing that if the 1967 expansion didn't happen and instead we started expanding outside of Sydney in the 70s the outer suburbs would still be producing players to this day. Stadium rationalisation would be doable now, and we'd still have westie bogans in 1st grade.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

I agree Bunniesliar. Let's not expand to penrith. Let's not have local boys Greg Alexander, Brad Fittler, Mark Geyer, Luke Lewis, Matthew Jennings etc inspire to play for their local club. Let's have the greatest basin of local juniors be raped by other clubs. Makes perfectly sound sense to me. :roll:

 

[docbrown]

Yes they are. Go to google maps and search 'Richmond','Collingwood','Carlton','St Kilda' etc if you don't believe me. The most distant Melbourne team is Essendon, a grand total of 8km away from the CBD.

And having that set up hasn't meant the outer suburbs have become barren wastelands of talent production.

That's why I'm arguing that if the 1967 expansion didn't happen and instead we started expanding outside of Sydney in the 70s the outer suburbs would still be producing players to this day. Stadium rationalisation would be doable now, and we'd still have westie bogans in 1st grade.

The difference is that in the NRL you still have locals supporting their local team. Yes you can live in one area and support a different team but if you were to do to a cluster map you would notice concentrations of supporters in different pockets of the cities.

This differs to the AFL. People mostly follow Melbourne AFL teams moreso because their parents did or they like the particular colours of their tanktop etc.

As Melbourne sprawled out supporters sprawled out.

As Sydney sprawled out supporters still remained more concentrated.