SCG 4th Test: Australia v India on Jan 6-10, 2015

[Twizzle]

:lol: so why the name calling? (and hilarious that you engage in it when questioned, not juvenile at all :lol

To prove my point.

Without going into a long and boring post, you call Aussies boorish, I respond with juvenile name calling, then you respond again.

on the pitch, thats sledging.

I couldn't care less whether cricketers or any other sportsmen do ut, but clearly the Aussies cross the line far too often (as do some teams when the play Aust)

You say you dont care but another shot at Aussies, like we are the only ones that do it which is not true

more sledging that you apparently dont approve of and this is where I normally call you a hypocryte

I don't think name calling has any effect, just puzzles me that they bother - and please, let's not pretend that any intelligent comments come from the likes of Warner

more Aussie sledging that we expect from you

this is where I call you predictable


If we did this on the pitch we are sledging, something you dont approve of, and after the game we'd have a beer, assuming you dont take it all personally or behave like a sook (see what I did there).

For mine its part of the game and I've always engaged with my opponents, sometimes it works, most times it doesn't and sometimes it backfire and I look like an idiot but its part of the sport for mine. That said I dont have an issue with people who dont want to engage.

Sledging adds a dimension to the sport that I enjoy but whether it works or not or backfires and I look like a fool, it stays on the pitch.

I'll be the first to admit I suffer nospam29 as I am extremely competitive but off the pitch I am just another really lovely person.

 

[Pete Cash]

Its trolling 101 guys. You hold your opponent to a standard you would never hold yourself to. Like broad not walking. I find it quite amusing that kiwis and poms fall over themselves to point out the hypocrisy. That's the point surely. To be f**king annoying. Its designed to break concentration. Its not a morality debate. Kohli has profited more from flat wickets than he has sledging anyway. Did we forget to sledge him at the gabba.

 

[JJ]

Just to be clear though, Im not supporting your "Tally Ho, Gentlemen" let's not sledge or talk at all position.

Just the slightly colonial, bully boy view of "those guys aren't supposed to talk back to us!"

Not what I think at all, chatter, especially clever stuff is good on all levels... Like it or not, whenever things get out of control it's Aust vs someone - and usually someone who has decided to respond in kind...

Mindless name calling, abuse, and the sort of shit that has lead to the Steyn/Clarke situation is just pathetic imo...

And then Warner coming out in the media and saying it should stop is so hypocritical it's breathtaking - imagine if Kohli said same, he'd be labelled weak, a sook etc etc

 

[JJ]

Its trolling 101 guys. You hold your opponent to a standard you would never hold yourself to. Like broad not walking. I find it quite amusing that kiwis and poms fall over themselves to point out the hypocrisy. That's the point surely. To be f**king annoying. Its designed to break concentration. Its not a morality debate. Kohli has profited more from flat wickets than he has sledging anyway. Did we forget to sledge him at the gabba.

You don't see the irony in that comment?

The Poms are as bad, at least when they play you lot - and I expect our team will be too when we play... sorry, like it or not the common denominator is that series marred by this behaviour almost always involve Australia

 

[JJ]

Its trolling 101 guys. You hold your opponent to a standard you would never hold yourself to. Like broad not walking. I find it quite amusing that kiwis and poms fall over themselves to point out the hypocrisy. That's the point surely. To be f**king annoying. Its designed to break concentration. Its not a morality debate. Kohli has profited more from flat wickets than he has sledging anyway. Did we forget to sledge him at the gabba.

Just a question, Smith is brilliant for playing like he is, and Kohli is benefitting from flat wickets?

 

[Pete Cash]

You don't see the irony in that comment?

The Poms are as bad, at least when they play you lot - and I expect our team will be too when we play... sorry, like it or not the common denominator is that series marred by this behaviour almost always involve Australia

Yes, but the point is to be hugely annoying rather than morally right. Australian's in general don't walk. We didn't forget that fact when we carried on about broad.

 

[madunit]

Why does Lyon refuse to have the straight ball as part of his bag of tricks? That's usually the one bit of variety off spinners have and he hates it for some reason.

I'm also annoyed by quicks refusing to learn to swing the ball both ways when that is what you need on flat decks where you get nothing from the pitch.

Swinging the ball both ways isn't as easy as you believe it is. The amount of swing a bowler gets comes down a fair bit to their action. If a bowler has to change his action to make a ball swing a certain way, then he'll be a piece of piss to pick and will be completely ineffective.

Lyon doesn't need a straight ball.

Lyon needs an arm ball.

 

[JJ]

Yes, but the point is to be hugely annoying rather than morally right. Australian's in general don't walk. We didn't forget that fact when we carried on about broad.

Sorry, got you... certainly the annoying bit has been a successful venture at times - the problem is that at times lines are crossed, whether they are real or imaginary - it's just not always a good look

 

[Pete Cash]

Just a question, Smith is brilliant for playing like he is, and Kohli is benefitting from flat wickets?

Smith has profited from bad wickets too but he also scored a century on the only tricky wicket this summer. Kohli has always had a question mark over his ability to score off a flat wicket. Smith has scored centuries in south Africa and England.

Both have had good summers mind. Its just highly unlikely we forgot to sledge him at the gabba where he failed.

 

[JJ]

Swinging the ball both ways isn't as easy as you believe it is. The amount of swing a bowler gets comes down a fair bit to their action. If a bowler has to change his action to make a ball swing a certain way, then he'll be a piece of piss to pick and will be completely ineffective.

Lyon doesn't need a straight ball.

Lyon needs an arm ball.

He does indeed, and some variation in pace - really not clear why he can't develop these - shocked to see how similar his record is to Hauritz's - wouldn't have picked that

 

[Twizzle]

Swinging the ball both ways isn't as easy as you believe it is. The amount of swing a bowler gets comes down a fair bit to their action. If a bowler has to change his action to make a ball swing a certain way, then he'll be a piece of piss to pick and will be completely ineffective.

Lyon doesn't need a straight ball.

Lyon needs an arm ball.

he needs the straight ball, or top spinner imo as it generally gets more bounce than the arm ball and its more variation as the arm ball has no kick or extra bounce

 

[JJ]

Smith has profited from bad wickets too but he also scored a century on the only tricky wicket this summer. Kohli has always had a question mark over his ability to score off a flat wicket. Smith has scored centuries in south Africa and England.

Both have had good summers mind. Its just highly unlikely we forgot to sledge him at the gabba where he failed.

Kohli averages 67 in Australia, and 64 against Australia - that's heady stuff.

One thing Australians (and all home teams) tend to underplay is the difficulty of touring - and morseo, Australia is almost certainly the toughest place to tour, so records like his and Dravid and others are very impressive, regardless of the wickets

 

[madunit]

he needs the straight ball, or top spinner imo as it generally gets more bounce than the arm ball and its more variation as the arm ball has no kick or extra bounce

His problem is that he is easy to defend and poses no real threat because every ball comes out of his hand straight. Extra bounce or no spin is not the type of variation he needs most at this stage.

He needs to get the ball moving in the air. If he can't do that then the other deliveries won't have as much impact.

I cannot believe that a test off spinner cannot bowl a straight ball or an arm ball.

 

[rickywalford1]

And then Warner coming out in the media and saying it should stop is so hypocritical it's breathtaking - imagine if Kohli said same, he'd be labelled weak, a sook etc etc

About as breathtaking as you labelling other posters as juvenile. Read your Watson campaign lately. Maturity at its breathtaking best. On the flip side, and to Warner 's credit, he has some self awareness and indicated as much in that article.

 

[JJ]

About as breathtaking as you labelling other posters as juvenile. Read your Watson campaign lately. Maturity at its breathtaking best. On the flip side, and to Warner 's credit, he has some self awareness and indicated as much in that article.

Eh? Warner patently has not, because his behaviour hasn't changed at all... actions speak louder and all...

Campaign? :lol: Watson is a terribly mediocre test #3, a fine ODI player, and if he batted 6 in the test team I wouldn't bat an eyelid - I am not the only one with that opinion, by a long stretch. As others have suggested, the issue is perhaps Watson's ego/self obsession which wont let him sink to the level of batting 5/6 for Australia (what a terrible thing that is, the likes of Border, Waugh, Hussey, etc)

 

[vvvrulz]

One thing Australians (and all home teams) tend to underplay is the difficulty of touring - and morseo, Australia is almost certainly the toughest place to tour, so records like his and Dravid and others are very impressive, regardless of the wickets

Can't agree with that at all, the wickets have everything to do with it. It is *much* easier for batting during this Indian tour which contributes a lot to the heavy stats. The likes of Rahul would have been fodder like so many others who toured in the 90s, and in the early 00s it required an immensely skilled batting line-up to finally conquer this territory.

No doubt Kohli is impressive and probably would have succeeded in the past. But its apples and oranges, this is not a tough tour for batsmen.

He was atrocious in England with true seaming conditions.

 

[JJ]

Can't agree with that at all, the wickets have everything to do with it. It is *much* easier for batting during this Indian tour which contributes a lot to the heavy stats. The likes of Rahul would have been fodder like so many others who toured in the 90s, and in the early 00s it required an immensely skilled batting line-up to finally conquer this territory.

No doubt Kohli is impressive and probably would have succeeded in the past. But its apples and oranges, this is not a tough tour for batsmen.

He was atrocious in England with true seaming conditions.

It remains though that Australia is an incredibly difficult place to tour, and everyone has benefitted from batting on these wickets - and against an unquestionably shit attack the performances of Smith, Warner, Clarke and even Rogers have been celebrated - and those of Kohli, Rahane and Vijay underestimated?

I still have questions on Kohli, for sure, but I am surprised at how well he's gone this series

 

[rickywalford1]

Eh? Warner patently has not, because his behaviour hasn't changed at all... actions speak louder and all...

Campaign? :lol: Watson is a terribly mediocre test #3, a fine ODI player, and if he batted 6 in the test team I wouldn't bat an eyelid - I am not the only one with that opinion, by a long stretch. As others have suggested, the issue is perhaps Watson's ego/self obsession which wont let him sink to the level of batting 5/6 for Australia (what a terrible thing that is, the likes of Border, Waugh, Hussey, etc)

It's all there. Pretty clear he is aware.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2014-15/content/story/816201.html

The opinions fine. How you express it is teenage schoolgirl behaviour. JJ hopping on the Mr Maturity high horse is comedy of the highest order.

 

[vvvrulz]

It remains though that Australia is an incredibly difficult place to tour, and everyone has benefitted from batting on these wickets - and against an unquestionably shit attack the performances of Smith, Warner, Clarke and even Rogers have been celebrated - and those of Kohli, Rahane and Vijay underestimated?

Underestimated where?

Cricinfo comments + articles are going nuts about how well this young Indian team is doing and that they are rebuilding the famous quintet of the 2000s (which is ridiculous).

This Australian tour was not as hard for batsmen as previous ones.

 

[JJ]

Underestimated where?

Cricinfo comments + articles are going nuts about how well this young Indian team is doing and that they are rebuilding the famous quintet of the 2000s (which is ridiculous).

This Australian tour was not as hard for batsmen as previous ones.

On this forum...

The wickets have been flat, comments such as "Marsh has done well" have been made, and Smith and Warner hailed as champions...

And yes, nuts - Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman and Ganguly were a bit special