Smith v Hagan - who is Mr Popular?

[salivor]

Your wrong, but thats non-verbal communication characteristics in channels hey?

I like Brian as a person.

Salivor, and the Knights dont have the blinkers on either? eg blaming everything on Hagan?

So because a few stupid Knights fans have gone off you feel you have to make a fool of yourself and sprout crap about Smith in thread after thread? Half of which I don't even think you believe, some of it you've even admitted to being crap in this very thread.

So what we've got is a contest to see who can talk the most crap? If we declare you the winner will you stop?

 

[pk76]

Ron, how comw when I offer up these players as evidence that Smith was good at bringing through players, or improving older ones, I am laughed off because they are 'crap', but when it comes to Hagan he is rebuilding our club after losing these players. You change your argument when it suits. Anyway, the one thing I have resented in this whole debate, is that Smith's legacy at the Eels is written off, simply because after rebuilding the club for the 05 season (and for the third time since he came to Parra) we had all that behind-the-scenes sh*t affect us in 06, giving his detractors ammunition that he was lucky in 05. It's nonsense.

Mate, top post! RJ, I am not bagging Hagan. Like most parra fans, I believe Hagan is the man to win us a premiership within 2-3 year window we have. And he should be moved on after that even if he acheives his task IMO. Like some eels fans on this site, I do resent anti-Smith Revisionism. The fact is Smith left Eels in stronger state in terms of its playing roster compared to Hagan with Knights. This contributed to our success this year so far, but it is not the sole cause, of course!

 

[Ron Jeremy]

So because a few stupid Knights fans have gone off you feel you have to make a fool of yourself and sprout crap about Smith in thread after thread? Half of which I don't even think you believe, some of it you've even admitted to being crap in this very thread.

So what we've got is a contest to see who can talk the most crap? If we declare you the winner will you stop?

Tell me what exactly is false then?

Hagan done a fine job under the circumstances at Newcastle. How could you possibly not make A Johns the the player that every play evloves around? A Johns had that same role in SOO and since he's left there they're farked? I've stated that anyside who looses their best player will struggle, particulary if he's their number 1 playmaker, is that false?

Smith done a good job with Parramatta, however his coaching between 2002-06 left alot to be desired. He didn't have the injuries, salary cap problems like Newcastle. He failed to retain key players and signed duds as replacements even though we had money to spend.

Smith should be credited for doing a good job for Parramatta between 97-2001. His iniatives in coaching were the benchmark at the time, however since rule changes hasn't been able to adjust his coaching accordingly. Some might point at 2005? however, do you hoestly think by looking at Parramattas roster in 2005 that the likes of Folkes, Bennett, Belamy, Stuart couldn't of achieved the same results?

Hagans 2001 GF win, probably the most idiotic thing ever to be uttered on this board. Coaches are the one that devise training strategies, attacking and defensive drills, game plans, player selection.... and how many bad coaches ( apart from the alledged Hagan) have won a GF in the last 20 years

2006- Bennett
2005-Sheens
2004-Folkes
2003-Lang
2002-Stuart
2001-Hagan
2000-Bennett
1999-Anderson
1998-Bennett
1997-Reily
1996-Fulton
1995-Anderson
1994-Sheens
1993-Bennett
1992-Bennett
1991-Gould
1990-Sheens
1989-Sheens
1988-Gould
1987-Fulton
1986-Monie

All have been proven to be succesful coaches...and yes Lang was a very good coach who also made Cronulla competitive and turned a wooden spoon favourites Penrith side into GF winners. To win a NRL title it's paramount to have a very good coach, to suggest a coach is crap that have won it is just plain studity....otherwise we wouldn't need coaches.

And yet again, if Ryan should be accredited with the 2001 GF then so should John peard for Gibsons wins in 81-83, Bennett should be accredited with Sheens wins in 89,90, Ryan should be accredited with Goulds win in 88, Lowe should be with Manlys gf's in 1995-97 as just an example.

The bottom line is:

- Smith is a very good coach tactically, however has struggled for coaching since rule changes in 2002

-Smith will create a different playing style for Newcastle in the years to come, however to say it will be better with the current rules etc that remains a mystery

- Hagan shouldn't be totally blamed for Newcastles demise in 2005 due to a huge injury toll which again is occuring this year. Hagan shouldn't be blamed also for loosing players to retain Johns, Burderus, Simpson, Gildlies etc

- To win a GF you have to be a very good coach and have the right supporting staff to accomodate this. As Jack gibson said it all starts with the front office.

- Hagan 2001 achievement was the result of his own coaching not ryan.


Is that better?

 

[Jono078]

Hagan done a fine job under the circumstances at Newcastle

Yet Smith hasnt done well this year under the circumstances?

That year (2005) we won 8 games, Johns was involved in all of the wins. That year we used 35 players, this year 37 + there were more season ending injuries this year and won every game without Johns (technically you could say he was involved in 1 though).

I don't see how the circumstances are so different yet you acknowledge Hagan done well considering the circumstances :?

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Yet Smith hasnt done well this year under the circumstances?

That year we won 8 games, Johns was involved in all of the wins. That year we used 35 players, this year 37 + there were more season ending injuries this year.

I don't see how the circumstances are so different yet you acknowledge Hagan done well considering the circumstances :?

Hello? taia, Vuna? they were brought midseason weren't they Reyonaldson is not injured as well.

This year they've recorded more thrashings then 2005.

 

[Misty Bee]

Goboggo, I accept your points in post 152, except the one about Wagon. Smith is on record saying that about the financial responsibility of keeping high paid players out of reserve grade. You will remember that Wagon was the pivot that never passed - the classic was the game v Penrith late in 04 when Parra started on fire - were up something like 16-0, when Wagon took Wesser's tackle with 3 unmarked men outside him. Penrith came back to win - and knock us out of the race.

Jono: I think you should look at 2005 as a season that started crap - what - they lost their first 12? By the end of it they won a string of games, and finished with a huge performance against the team that was the odds on favorite for the title at the time. Hagan finished that wreched year with a spoon, but with a confident club in great shape for the following season -when they finished 4th.

Smith has gone the other way. The confidence slips out of his club in greater proportions each week. With 2 rounds to go, his club is utterly divided. Hagan had them united.

 

[Jono078]

Hello? taia, Vuna? they were brought midseason weren't they Reyonaldson is not injured as well.

This year they've recorded more thrashings then 2005.

We could have bought players from Japan this season, what's your point? We still have used more players.

There was a time where we only had 20 to choose from.

You just cant admit Smith has done a decent job can you?

Misty, Would if be no suprise we started winning again in 2005 once Johns hit top form? Before that Johns was injured a bit and was in sh*t form.

2006 was a good season though for the most part. Most players played close to career best form.

 

[Misty Bee]

So 2005 was all Hagan's fault, unless they won, when it was all Joey's doing? What about the times Joey played and they lost?

2006 was a good season though for the most part. Most players played close to career best form.

INteresting comment. Most pro Smith Parra fans of the time used to blame the players when the eels played bad. They argues that it wasn't the coach that missed tackles, dropped balls etc. But when they played well, Smith was a brilliant coach.

Last year's Knights were excellent with what was generally a young squad, and Hagan has to wear SOME of the credit.

Which brings up another point. In 2006, both Hagan and Smith had 12months notice that their club saw it's future elsewhere. Hagan accepted it, and took his side to a home semi. Smith didn't, coached crap, cried, and quit. Who was the better coach in THAT situation?

 

[Ron Jeremy]

We could have bought players from Japan this season, what's your point? We still have used more players.

You don't get it do you? you have used 37 players when you didn't need too. Taia and Vuna came in. That stat is very misleading, look at Parramatta in 1995 when we won 3 games all year, we used more but didn't have any major injury problems just players that weren't performing.

You just cant admit Smith has done a decent job can you?

Do you honestly think he's done a good job this year? are you sure if he and Newcastle would've had there time over again they would've done things differently?

IMO stuffed up this year big time, however to be fair time will judge if he made the right decision.

And i have acknowledged that Smith has doen some great things as a coach.

Misty, Would if be no suprise we started winning again in 2005 once Johns hit top form? Before that Johns was injured a bit and was in sh*t form.

No, offcourse teams will play better if there no 1 playmaker is playing well.

2006 was a good season though for the most part. Most players played close to career best form.

Yes, thats why i can't understand why Newcastle needed to make huge changes.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

So 2005 was all Hagan's fault, unless they won, when it was all Joey's doing? What about the times Joey played and they lost?

Exactly:lol: but hey i have the blinkers on remember:lol:

How many games have newcastle won without Burderus this year out of curiosity?

 

[Dave Q]

Smith Rocks

 

[TooheysNew]

I'm amazed you are all still trying to debate with RJ.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

I'm amazed you are all still trying to debate with RJ.

So Hagan is a sh*t coach then is he? and can't win without Johns? and Brian Smith is the best coach in the whole wide world and has done a wonderful job for Newcastle this year?

Yeah you're right, i'm so wrong aren't I.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

So 2005 was all Hagan's fault, unless they won, when it was all Joey's doing? What about the times Joey played and they lost?



INteresting comment. Most pro Smith Parra fans of the time used to blame the players when the eels played bad. They argues that it wasn't the coach that missed tackles, dropped balls etc. But when they played well, Smith was a brilliant coach.

Last year's Knights were excellent with what was generally a young squad, and Hagan has to wear SOME of the credit.

Which brings up another point. In 2006, both Hagan and Smith had 12months notice that their club saw it's future elsewhere. Hagan accepted it, and took his side to a home semi. Smith didn't, coached crap, cried, and quit. Who was the better coach in THAT situation?

GAME SET MATCH:lol:

 

[TooheysNew]

Sorry mate. Not interested.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

The bottom line is:

- Smith is a very good coach tactically, however has struggled for coaching since rule changes in 2002

-Smith will create a different playing style for Newcastle in the years to come, however to say it will be better with the current rules etc that remains a mystery

- Hagan shouldn't be totally blamed for Newcastles demise in 2005 due to a huge injury toll which again is occuring this year. Hagan shouldn't be blamed also for loosing players to retain Johns, Burderus, Simpson, Gildlies etc

- To win a GF you have to be a very good coach and have the right supporting staff to accomodate this. As Jack gibson said it all starts with the front office.

- Hagan 2001 achievement was the result of his own coaching not ryan.

They're the points i'm arguing, tell me would i be so wrong to believe the above?

 

[Misty Bee]

Ron, I hope the Knights have a bumper season in 08 under Smith. That way, if Parra play 'em in the PF, with Hindmarsh, Grothe, Burt, Hayne, Piggy, Fui and Finchy all serving a one match suspension, we'd still be a shoe in!

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Ron, I hope the Knights have a bumper season in 08 under Smith. That way, if Parra play 'em in the PF, with Hindmarsh, Grothe, Burt, Hayne, Piggy, Fui and Finchy all serving a one match suspension, we'd still be a shoe in!

:lol:

 

[badav]

not watching your team win a premiership for over 20 years has a severly detrimental affect on your sanity and mind.

case in point
- all sharks fans
- misty bee
- ron jeremy

 

[Misty Bee]

If that's the case Badav then you must support Glebe.