Southern Orcas (NZ2)

[flippikat]

Just out of interest whats the strongest rivalry in New Zealand?

auckland v Christchurch ?

auckland v Wellington?

Auckland v Dunedin?

Across all sport, Auckland v Christchurch (Canterbury province).

Historically there's plenty of contrasts in the rivalry - metropolitan vs more rural-slanted, multicultural vs predominantly Caucasian, blue vs red, North Island vs South Island.. and I'm convinced that feeds into the rivalry being that much more intense than any other in NZ sport.

On just about every aspect, Auckland & Christchurch find themselves as opposites, which just feeds into a clash of cultures as much as sports.

 

[Perth Red]

Is Goulds decision to abandon his NZ jnr development role a big set back for the prospects of a second NZ club? The theory was he would put in place systems that would generate more athn enough top talent for 2 NZ teams. What next for NZRL?

 

[siv]

Wonder what it also says about the Warriors

 

[flippikat]

Is Goulds decision to abandon his NZ jnr development role a big set back for the prospects of a second NZ club? The theory was he would put in place systems that would generate more athn enough top talent for 2 NZ teams. What next for NZRL?

Good question. Covid really kneecapped us.. just as we got someone of good quality & great standing in the Australian scene to help set up pathways, his job became darn near impossible because he couldn't reliably travel here.

I really hope the Warriors have got good notes from their time with Gould, that can be used to flesh-out a strategy in his absence.

As far as expansion & NZ 2 goes, it's hard to see any commitment to it while covid hangs over trans-Tasman travel.

I honestly think the NRL is having a tough enough time deciding on a Brisbane 2 team, that stuff beyond that is waaaay beyond them right now. The comments about a 2nd NZ team actually sound like "brainstorming out loud" rather than a considered goal.

I would not be surprised if NZ 2 is overlooked for the 18th team, and the NRL instead plays it really conservative and adds the Central Coast, arguing that Perth & NZ are too risky (borders), Brisbane 3 will tred on too many toes (Titans, Broncos, Brisbane 2 may take a hit), so hey let's bring back the Bears for that 9th game per weekend!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Good question. Covid really kneecapped us.. just as we got someone of good quality & great standing in the Australian scene to help set up pathways, his job became darn near impossible because he couldn't reliably travel here.

I really hope the Warriors have got good notes from their time with Gould, that can be used to flesh-out a strategy in his absence.

As far as expansion & NZ 2 goes, it's hard to see any commitment to it while covid hangs over trans-Tasman travel.

I honestly think the NRL is having a tough enough time deciding on a Brisbane 2 team, that stuff beyond that is waaaay beyond them right now. The comments about a 2nd NZ team actually sound like "brainstorming out loud" rather than a considered goal.

I would not be surprised if NZ 2 is overlooked for the 18th team, and the NRL instead plays it really conservative and adds the Central Coast, arguing that Perth & NZ are too risky (borders), Brisbane 3 will tred on too many toes (Titans, Broncos, Brisbane 2 may take a hit), so hey let's bring back the Bears for that 9th game per weekend!

You've actually nailed how the NRL would think there. That would be such a gut-punch to have one of the few possible additional spots left in the NRL go to a NSW based team.

 

[Perth Red]

You've actually nailed how the NRL would think there. That would be such a gut-punch to have one of the few possible additional spots left in the NRL go to a NSW based team.

I know they are dumb and myopic but surely even vlandys can’t be that dumb can he to think an 11th nsw club is a good idea when major population centres have no nrl presence?

 

[flippikat]

I know they are dumb and myopic but surely even vlandys can’t be that dumb can he to think an 11th nsw club is a good idea when major population centres have no nrl presence?

I certainly wouldn't discount the possibility.

It's very easy to put oneself in those shoes, make an ultra-conservative decision, and build an emotional argument to "justify" it - where the facts & figures say it makes absolutely no sense.

 

[The Great Dane]

I certainly wouldn't discount the possibility.

Even at their craziest I can't realistically see the NRL bringing in the CC.

Where there're tangible benefits to NZ, Brisbane, etc, the CC would make no commercial sense whatsoever.

 

[flippikat]

Even at their craziest I can't realistically see the NRL bringing in the CC.

Where there're tangible benefits to NZ, Brisbane, etc, the CC would make no commercial sense whatsoever.

While I'd love to share your optimism & sentiment that "surely they can't be THAT biased & inward looking!", the last 20-odd years of NRL administration gives me little to no hope that they will be bold.. and even less hope that they'll be strategically bold.

 

[MugaB]

While I'd love to share your optimism & sentiment that "surely they can't be THAT biased & inward looking!", the last 20-odd years of NRL administration gives me little to no hope that they will be bold.. and even less hope that they'll be strategically bold.

I can see it eventually happening, but not until the likes of Qld5, Nz2, Perth and Adelaide come in first.

 

[The Great Dane]

While I'd love to share your optimism & sentiment that "surely they can't be THAT biased & inward looking!", the last 20-odd years of NRL administration gives me little to no hope that they will be bold.. and even less hope that they'll be strategically bold.

Mate the amount of money they'd lose by bringing in a CC team would be enough to change even their minds.

Maybe the CC gets a run if a team relocates there, or in some unforeseeable distant future, but right now there's no way that the commercial side would stack up unless they had people lined up to bankroll it for the foreseeable future, which is unlikely to ever happen.

 

[sup42]

Life long Auckland Rugby League supporter here.

I would welcome a 2nd franchise with open arms and they would have my full support.

In fact I would give them more support than the Warriors who have failed to deliver for so long, that I am keen to support any NZ franchise without a hint of guilt about the Warriors.

A new franchise would be my team one and the Warriors team two.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I know they are dumb and myopic but surely even vlandys can’t be that dumb can he to think an 11th nsw club is a good idea when major population centres have no nrl presence?

I really hope not, I would not be surprised if it did happen though.

 

[flippikat]

Mate the amount of money they'd lose by bringing in a CC team would be enough to change even their minds.

Maybe the CC gets a run if a team relocates there, or in some unforeseeable distant future, but right now there's no way that the commercial side would stack up unless they had people lined up to bankroll it for the foreseeable future, which is unlikely to ever happen.

Yep, I agree completely that the CC should not be on the table except for relocation of a Sydney club... and only then if the business case stacks up - as you say, it would probably take a well-resourced sugar-daddy back it against any losses.

If/when the Central Coast gets a team of it's own, I reckon we may start to hear noises about getting a standalone team for Illawarra again. (Similar market size, yeah?) But that's a whole other can of worms...

But anyway, back on topic - yeah NZ 2 is a *little* down the list I think.. covid just solidifies that.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

But anyway, back on topic - yeah NZ 2 is a *little* down the list I think.. covid just solidifies that.

Yep. I'd suggest that (sadly for NZ) covid and the effects of it have become a huge disincentive to bring in another team from abroad.

I don't know what the true cost of having the Warriors in Australia has been for so long. But double it for a second team.

I've heard all sorts of figures of costs quoted for teams going up to qld - someone mentioned to me approx $15m per month per team, not just accom & flights, travel, ground hire etc but also the coverage of each game (overheads) - their crew etc, also lost rev from not playing in their home grounds etc. That's not a confirmed number at all, could be way off - but does anyone know what is?

Yes there would be learnings from the current Covid mess that governments would put in place that could lessen the impact of any future outbreak of a virus etc... but the risks are still there.

 

[flippikat]

Yep. I'd suggest that (sadly for NZ) covid and the effects of it have become a huge disincentive to bring in another team from abroad.

I don't know what the true cost of having the Warriors in Australia has been for so long. But double it for a second team.

I actually think Covid may play into the hands of Perth, even Adelaide.

With a footprint in more Australian states, the NRL would conceivably have more options to move the competition if any outbreaks happen in future - Covid or any new virus that pops up.

 

[Dark Corner]

Even at their craziest I can't realistically see the NRL bringing in the CC.

Where there're tangible benefits to NZ, Brisbane, etc, the CC would make no commercial sense whatsoever.

Well it makes no sense of building a stadium that doesn't get used much on the Central Coast and that goes for part time stadium in the Gong.
Makes no sense having 8.5 teams in Sydney.

 

[siv]

Covid could see the end of the Warriors just like in NRLW

So NZ2 will be pie in the sky

 

[The Great Dane]

Well it makes no sense of building a stadium that doesn't get used much on the Central Coast and that goes for part time stadium in the Gong.

Governments aren't businesses, and as such they don't necessarily make their decisions based on what makes the most commercial sense.

Makes no sense having 8.5 teams in Sydney.

True, but having to drag that ball and chain is just another reason why they wouldn't want to risk the CC when all reasonable logic suggests that they'd lose millions on them.

 

[flippikat]

Governments aren't businesses, and as such they don't necessarily make their decisions based on what makes the most commercial sense.

Spot on, plus there's the political angle too - marginal seats can get a LOT of attention when it comes to Government largesse.. especially when an election is looming.