The 700 Level - Home of the Ginger Jesus.

[Pippen94]

Are you actually an eagles fan, Pippen? Feels like you're either an idiot or trollin lol

That went south quick. How about just focusing on topic & abstaining from insults?!

 

[Pippen94]

Disagree

He has never been considered elite in the same mould as mahomes, Allen, Herbert etc.

His strength is his legs and the play calling needs to be better for him. The bloke has still led 4 4th quarter comebacks this season.

We have lost 4 of the last 5 and only once (Seattle) has the offense let the team down.

Has good qualities: is smart, confident & uses legs well. Won't win game off his own arm though.

 

[nick87]

Pretty obscure stat category. All the main ones like yards, qb rating & completion % Hurts is not elite.

What is obscure about it?
Its completion % over expectation... ie. what is the difficulty of the throw? is it easy? is it hard? And where does the completion % land against objective metrics

He completes more difficult throws than almost any other QB, and he's got 2 elite wrs and a stud te... why are the throws so difficult?

 

[nick87]

That went south quick. How about just focusing on topic & abstaining from insults?!

Answer the question. Its a simple one.
Its literally one word. Im answering your claims on facts... im just asking you to declare your interests.
Not hard, answer the question. If you want to talk actually football, then lets talk but put your card on the table.

 

[Pippen94]

What is obscure about it?
Its completion % over expectation... ie. what is the difficulty of the throw? is it easy? is it hard? And where does the completion % land against objective metrics

He completes more difficult throws than almost any other QB, and he's got 2 elite wrs and a stud te... why are the throws so difficult?

It's obscure because I've followed nfl for two decades & never heard of it. Lots of advanced stats out there which probably favour whichever particular player somebody wants. I remember Steve Kerr doing well in a particular offensive category when playing for the bulls in the NBA. I wouldn't have put him in the top 100 players on offense in the league at the time.
Don't know enough about that stat. Hurts certainly not an accurate or strong thrower. Seems like a crutch..

 

[Pippen94]

Answer the question. Its a simple one.
Its literally one word. Im answering your claims on facts... im just asking you to declare your interests.
Not hard, answer the question. If you want to talk actually football, then lets talk but put your card on the table.

Was ur previous post a question or just an insult?! Troll or Idiot?!
Who I am or follow shouldn't matter if ur just making ad hominem attacks.

From all my posts here should be clear I'm an NFL fan & follow season closely. Don't profess a great technical knowledge or anything either..

 

[nick87]

It's obscure because I've followed nfl for two decades & never heard of it. Lots of advanced stats out there which probably favour whichever particular player somebody wants. I remember Steve Kerr doing well in a particular offensive category when playing for the bulls in the NBA. I wouldn't have put him in the top 100 players on offense in the league at the time.
Don't know enough about that stat. Hurts certainly not an accurate or strong thrower. Seems like a crutch..

You’re allowed to be wrong
No issue with that, CPOE is a very legitimate measure of qb performance
It’s not the be all or end all but it’s a legit stat that people who arent hard wired to simple metrics understand is useful

Why do you think teams are going for it more on 4th down, going for 2 and being generally more aggressive? It’s advanced analytics.

 

[nick87]

Was ur previous post a question or just an insult?! Troll or Idiot?!
Who I am or follow shouldn't matter if ur just making ad hominem attacks.

From all my posts here should be clear I'm an NFL fan & follow season closely. Don't profess a great technical knowledge or anything either..

it was both a genuine question and an insult with an expected answer

Hilarious that you don’t want to reveal your fandom. 2 decades of nfl support and ashamed to tell us your team?
It’s not hard man. Who’s your team?

your analysis is trash so I’m eager to understand the angle, that’s all

 

[Pippen94]

it was both a genuine question and an insult with an expected answer

Hilarious that you don’t want to reveal your fandom. 2 decades of nfl support and ashamed to tell us your team?
It’s not hard man. Who’s your team?

your analysis is trash so I’m eager to understand the angle, that’s all

Lol, I'm not Chris Simms & I can confidentially say ur probably not either. Never played the game or coached it either. Just a fan offering 2 cents worth. Don't need to personally attack other posters because that generally means the argument has been lost.

 

[Pippen94]

You’re allowed to be wrong
No issue with that, CPOE is a very legitimate measure of qb performance
It’s not the be all or end all but it’s a legit stat that people who arent hard wired to simple metrics understand is useful

Why do you think teams are going for it more on 4th down, going for 2 and being generally more aggressive? It’s advanced analytics.

So it's just a stat..& in most other catergories Hurts isn't elite. Hang ur hat that one OK.

 

[nick87]

Why is it so hard to answer the question?
The argument hasn’t been lost because you haven’t made one yet. You’ve just stated a thing and when presented with facts that count it you dismiss it because you don’t understand it

So let’s change track… let’s exchange opinions
Explain to me in your opinion based on actual game and stats what makes Hurts a bad passer?
Let’s talk about it

 

[nick87]

Also how hard is it to just say which team you support?
It’s pretty telling that you refuse to say haha

 

[Pippen94]

Why is it so hard to answer the question?
The argument hasn’t been lost because you haven’t made one yet. You’ve just stated a thing and when presented with facts that count it you dismiss it because you don’t understand it

So let’s change track… let’s exchange opinions
Explain to me in your opinion based on actual game and stats what makes Hurts a bad passer?

I presented main categories of stats which show hurts is average. You countered by citing a particular stat which I'm not familiar with. You told me to trust you because it's the most important one (funny considering that I've never heard of it). I won't because I simply don't know.

Hurts arm isn't strong & that's an opinion that's not rare among fans. He's not a drew Brees level marksman either!! He's a confident game manger with legs. That's not a bad thing, it's just that he's not that much of a talent..

 

[Pippen94]

Also how hard is it to just say which team you support?
It’s pretty telling that you refuse to say haha

Not hard, but u want to make this about me & not hurts so I give u nothing..

 

[nick87]

The problem with your opinion is that it’s just baseless if you’re not supporting it with actual information. You’ve been following this game for 2 decades and aren’t familiar with advanced metrics like CPOE or advanced analytics? It's been the topic du jour for about 5 years now. What content are you consuming where you're not exposed to advanced analytics? Even the Screamin A and Skip Bayless's of the world dive into this stuff.

How about QBR, heard of that? Hurts is 9th this year coming off being 4th last year.

You say he’s got a weak arm and he’s not accurate, ok… walk me through that. What can you point to in terms of stats or in game vision to support that he has a weak arm and/or that he’s inaccurate?

Because I can point out countless throws that support that Hurts has the requisite arm talent to be very successful in this league.

Zaccheaus touchdown against the Bucs, 3rd and 20 throw last week to AJ Brown, Davonta Smith touchdown against the Cowboys. Three very quick and easy examples that show case Hurts arm talent and arm strength is not an inhibiting factor to his game. In the Oz and Smithy cases, they are deep balls into tight windows with perfect ball placement and accuracy. Oz and AJ throws are layered throws over a LB. These are throws that are very hard to make if you dont have arm talent and Hurts consistently makes throws like these.

On top in game footage, the aforementioned CPOE stat demonstrates his ability to consistently make tight window throws ... i.e he's accurate with the ball. You not understanding a fairly basic stat doesn't actually invalidate it, im sorry, that's not how life works.

in 2022 statistically, Hurts was the 3rd best deep ball thrower in the league. So much for weak arm.

Next Gen Stats' top 10 NFL deep passers of 2022: Geno Smith, Tua Tagovailoa excel at airing it out

www.nfl.com

Per Ringers Steven Ruiz - https://nflrankings.theringer.com/qb-rankings
He's 7th in the league for EPA per drop back
He's 10th in the league on success rate.

The 2022 eagles were a holding call away from winning a SB with him as the driving force and focal point of the offence. But now all of a sudden this guy is not "much a talent"?

Make it make sense? Walk me through what you've seen that makes you say he's not accurate, has a weak arm and isnt much of a talent?

 

[Valheru]

That went south quick. How about just focusing on topic & abstaining from insults?!

You're a 9ers fan right?

 

[Pippen94]

You're a 9ers fan right?

I follow players not teams, like Brady who I supported at both patriots & tampa. I have nothing against eagles, although did enjoy the cards with upset. Just here to talk NFL & not take the whole thing too seriously..

 

[Pippen94]

Philly the first team in over 35 years to go from 10 & 1 to 11 & 5. Complete collapse this season.

 

[Pippen94]

The problem with your opinion is that it’s just baseless if you’re not supporting it with actual information. You’ve been following this game for 2 decades and aren’t familiar with advanced metrics like CPOE or advanced analytics? It's been the topic du jour for about 5 years now. What content are you consuming where you're not exposed to advanced analytics? Even the Screamin A and Skip Bayless's of the world dive into this stuff.

How about QBR, heard of that? Hurts is 9th this year coming off being 4th last year.

You say he’s got a weak arm and he’s not accurate, ok… walk me through that. What can you point to in terms of stats or in game vision to support that he has a weak arm and/or that he’s inaccurate?

Because I can point out countless throws that support that Hurts has the requisite arm talent to be very successful in this league.

Zaccheaus touchdown against the Bucs, 3rd and 20 throw last week to AJ Brown, Davonta Smith touchdown against the Cowboys. Three very quick and easy examples that show case Hurts arm talent and arm strength is not an inhibiting factor to his game. In the Oz and Smithy cases, they are deep balls into tight windows with perfect ball placement and accuracy. Oz and AJ throws are layered throws over a LB. These are throws that are very hard to make if you dont have arm talent and Hurts consistently makes throws like these.

On top in game footage, the aforementioned CPOE stat demonstrates his ability to consistently make tight window throws ... i.e he's accurate with the ball. You not understanding a fairly basic stat doesn't actually invalidate it, im sorry, that's not how life works.

in 2022 statistically, Hurts was the 3rd best deep ball thrower in the league. So much for weak arm.

Next Gen Stats' top 10 NFL deep passers of 2022: Geno Smith, Tua Tagovailoa excel at airing it out

www.nfl.com

Per Ringers Steven Ruiz - https://nflrankings.theringer.com/qb-rankings
He's 7th in the league for EPA per drop back
He's 10th in the league on success rate.

The 2022 eagles were a holding call away from winning a SB with him as the driving force and focal point of the offence. But now all of a sudden this guy is not "much a talent"?

Make it make sense? Walk me through what you've seen that makes you say he's not accurate, has a weak arm and isnt much of a talent?

See 9ers game: hurts was contained in pocket & made to play as traditional QB. That temple has been employed by opponents since. What's the record for Philly after 9ers loss?!

 

[nick87]

See 9ers game: hurts was contained in pocket & made to play as traditional QB. That temple has been employed by opponents since. What's the record for Philly after 9ers loss?!

That’s the problem with one game sample sizes
Anyone gets the play that game. See the Super Bowl… 27/38 300 yards passing, 15 for 70 on the ground accounted for 4 total touchdowns
So he’s the best player to ever walk earth.

what has happened since the niners game has, as I’ve said repeatedly had very little to do with Hurts
The eagles had 6 true possession against the Cardinals and they scored 4 touchdowns and a FG, the offence did whatever the f**k it wanted... the problem was the cardinals were sustaining 7-8 minute scoring drives because the defence couldnt make a play. What's that go to do with Hurts?

Example: through 16 weeks of the season defensvie charting

How the Cowboys, Niners, Seattle and the Cardinals play defence structurally is not the same. It cant be because their personnel and strengths of the defence are completely different... Cover 1, Cover 3, Man, match coverage, how they deploy their fronts and their blitz package etc is completely different.

The thing about the NFL is you can just watch games and say dumb shit, but there is always be facts to get in the way of narratives pushed by people who dont know what they're talking about
Hurts is 7th in EPA (Expected Points Added) in drop backs... that is being a QB... when he drops back to throw the ball there are exactly 6 QBs better than Hurts

And you say you want to talk NFL but you actually have proven multiple times here you dont actually know enough to talk NFL.
And on that note, im done. I'm not wasting anymore time trying to talk NFL with a box score fan who pushes lazy narratives and cant even understand a basic premise like CPOE or EPA. There is a nuanced and interesting discussion to had on Hurts and what is happening right now but im sorry to say you're incapable of having it.