The Forbidden Game-insightful book on what has & can happen

[madunit]

IMO, some arguments you make are good, in particular seeing the wrongs from both sides. However two that arent:-
1 - your personal insults. Poor form, if your argument was so comprehensive I do not imagine you would need these.

If I had not been insulted without provocation at the outset I would not have felt the need to return favour.

2 - what you consider wronging someone, a sport promoting itself, that indirectly harms other sports via taking market share is not one sport wronging another. A sport banning participation of another sport in certain schools or banning players from playing there own sport due to what else they play, is wronging another sport.

You are saying Sport A taking players from Sport B for the sole purpose of Benefitting Sport A does not have any negative effect on Sport B. I am saying thats a dumb argument being tossed about by those who are incapable of understanding and accepting that League has attacked Union ranks solely to help League at Unions expense. Secretly paying them and using power in Government to get the game in schools directly and negatively affects Union and at the direct benefit to league.

I am not discussing the maliciousness of the events, just stating that they are done to help league at the expense of Union and that they are evidence of League playing dirty themselves. I will keep saying it because it's true. Because it happened.

For instance one of your examples, the labor politicians getting league in catholic schools, they did not ban union did they? If they did it would be considered a wrong, if they didnt ban union then it is definately not a wrong.

I'm not comparing maliciousness. I'm stating that league has committed acts to attack Union's playing ranks for the purpose of improving League (which worsens Union).

But that is those kids making the choice, not rugby league forcing them to make that choice.

Introducing union to a league school is not union killing league it is giving children a choice.

Just because their are indirect consequenses that adversely affect another game isn't enough to dump guilt on that party.

Most people accept that every school in australia should give the kids the choice on what winter code they wish to play and at the very least should make league, soccer, union and afl available if the demand is their.

The simple fact is certain systems will not do that regardless of the demand and these systems tend to be union systems. In the end though these schools will become out of favour as they will be viewed as close minded bigotted schools and they will have less of a market for their students.

If league could get into just one GPS school, like say newington, any league parent would stick their kid there over all other schools advantaging newington over all other schools, but it is up to leagues administration and the schools to jump on to this.

I've already addressed this. I'm sick of repeating my very clear and obvious facts over and over again.

 

[madunit]

Mad Unit .
Give yourself an upper cut!

You referred to the Forbidden Game" book as an isolated incident and not an example of what can happen to a sport by the hands of another sport. If you bother to read the blurb on the back of this book it reads " ..one of the most extreme examples of one's sport's hostility towards another."

I'll repeat myself for you again. I was referring to Union officials aligning themselves with a Nazi Sympathising caretaker Government to delete Rugby League. That is an isolated incident and the most extreme case of Union attacks on League.

You say you love rugby league then show us you do instead of providing tangents for RU people to justify their undeserved status as the "most known" rugby code of the world!

I hate to mention all this as I am not one to use this as a point of argument, but if you so wish to have no faith in my integrity, then here goes: I write historical pieces for Men Of League magazine. I have written for this website and for the official Wests Tigers website. I have a website with a friend that is attempting to do what no one else or any other resource in the world has ever bothered or attempted to do, record all of Rugby league's match details around the world. We are the official Rugby League statisticians/historical data providors for Wales Rugby League. We have the only completed database of every test and international game ever played by France. We were the first and possibly still the only resource to have match details (team line ups, scorers etc) for every World Cup game ever played. We are the only resource to have full match details of every City v Country game ever played. We have the only resource to have full Interstate match details between NSW and QLD ever played. We are the only resource to have the match details of every European Cup match ever played. We were the first resource to list all pointscorers for every NSWRL/ARL/Superleague/NRL game ever played. We are the only resource with the results of every midweek, pre season and post season competition ever played in Australia. We have been thanked in a number of books, "Playing with Legends - The Peter Dimond Story", "A Short History of Rugby League In Australia" and just recently a series of 12 books by a professor in England on the history and social history of Castleford Tigers. Just a few months ago I was a reference on a thesis about Politics and Religion and how they intertwined with Rugby League. I spent 8 months interviewing and researching about the man who was the referee in the first ever Rugby League game in Australia in 1908.

Do you want me to go on?

Quite simply if the cream(RL) was allowed to rise to the top we would not be discussing the dodgy conduct of rugby union as it would not have been around!

Again, I haven't stated anything against that.

 

[madunit]

Another excellent book is "Rugby's Class War" by David Hinchliffe M.P. published in 2000.

From the back page:
"It is a hard hitting account of the way bigotry, elitism and hypocrisy underpinning Rugby Union's long standing attempts to outlaw the separate sport of Rugby League were finally challenged and confronted."

Nothing to do with France by the way.

Lord League

I never stated anywhere ever that Union hasn't treated League badly.

Never.

 

[madunit]

His own perceived role of showing "balance" seems to overcome a genuine regard for the game of rugby league. I'm wondering if what he has written about rugby league has mentioned the underhanded repression tactics of rugby union toward our great game?

Perhaps the mad unit may be a "plant" serving to throw genuine rugby league issues to the backwater? So far his form of insults and abuse do no favors for his position.

Credit to him for running the web site but this matter(repression of RL worldwide) is very relevant and real to rugby league and should not be ignored.

I am not ignoring Union's atrocities to League you simple minded buffoon.

And if you don't like being insulted, then you shouldn't have called me an apologist for Union you hypocrite.

I merely raised a few points to show that League has attacked Union for League's own benefit and to the detriment of Union. It's facts.

I'm glad league did it, because it gave us the game we have today.

I have another case for you.

1937 - The Springboks toured Australia. Harry Sunderland contacted them and asked them all to consider switching to league instead, using money as bait.

Is that worse than what Union has done to league? f**k no, not even close.

Is it taking the best players Union has to offer and attempted to make them League players for the benefit of league and to the detriment of Union. That is clearly obvious.

 

[madunit]

Interesting you state "facts"! MU has already tried to deny the factual account of what happened in the French example and you talk of facts?

That is a blatant outright lie. I did not deny anything about the atrocity that happened in Vichy.

 

[madunit]

And which GPS and CSS schools were league was canned or banned I sprague now being offered even as a 5 or 6 week program



Was that none???

You are either a union sympathizer or not.

Yes league has made mistakes but that does justifying union the game is evil always has been always will be.

This is the crux of my whole argument.

But people in here are adamant that league has done no wrong ever and anyone providing facts to suggest wrongdoing by League is a Union apologist which is just childish

 

[magpie4ever]

I'll repeat myself for you again. I was referring to Union officials aligning themselves with a Nazi Sympathising caretaker Government to delete Rugby League. That is an isolated incident and the most extreme case of Union attacks on League.

I hate to mention all this as I am not one to use this as a point of argument, but if you so wish to have no faith in my integrity, then here goes: I write historical pieces for Men Of League magazine. I have written for this website and for the official Wests Tigers website. I have a website with a friend that is attempting to do what no one else or any other resource in the world has ever bothered or attempted to do, record all of Rugby league's match details around the world. We are the official Rugby League statisticians/historical data providors for Wales Rugby League. We have the only completed database of every test and international game ever played by France. We were the first and possibly still the only resource to have match details (team line ups, scorers etc) for every World Cup game ever played. We are the only resource to have full match details of every City v Country game ever played. We have the only resource to have full Interstate match details between NSW and QLD ever played. We are the only resource to have the match details of every European Cup match ever played. We were the first resource to list all pointscorers for every NSWRL/ARL/Superleague/NRL game ever played. We are the only resource with the results of every midweek, pre season and post season competition ever played in Australia. We have been thanked in a number of books, "Playing with Legends - The Peter Dimond Story", "A Short History of Rugby League In Australia" and just recently a series of 12 books by a professor in England on the history and social history of Castleford Tigers. Just a few months ago I was a reference on a thesis about Politics and Religion and how they intertwined with Rugby League. I spent 8 months interviewing and researching about the man who was the referee in the first ever Rugby League game in Australia in 1908.

Do you want me to go on?


Again, I haven't stated anything against that.

Great stuff - get that up you, you pack of grubs.

Did you ever trackdown any details of the proposed hyrid game suggested in the 1920s (League-Aussie Rule)?

 

[madunit]

Great stuff - get that up you, you pack of grubs.

Did you ever trackdown any details of the proposed hyrid game sugested in the 1920s (League-Ausie Rule)?

Looking into that. Found that the VFL were very keen on it but the League were of the opinion that both codes would be better served if they stayed seperate and true their own states.

I've been researching another major story in Rugby League's history, so the VFL/RL merger stuff has been put on hold for now.

 

[magpie4ever]

Looking into that. Found that the VFL were very keen on it but the League were of the opinion that both codes would be better served if they stayed seperate and true their own states.

I've been researching another major story in Rugby League's history, so the VFL/RL merger stuff has been put on hold for now.

Any clues as to this.

 

[madunit]

Its to do with the World Cup.

 

[Perth Red]

This is the crux of my whole argument.

But people in here are adamant that league has done no wrong ever and anyone providing facts to suggest wrongdoing by League is a Union apologist which is just childish

You keep saying this, can you show a post where someone has denied league has done no wrong? What the majority are saying, and you agree with, is that in comparison to leagues wrong doing to union that union is 100 times worse, continues to this day and that their deliberate attempts to undermine RL in various parts of the world make them complete scum. Seems we are all in agreement really!

 

[firechild]

I never suggested that I believe that you are saying the wrongs are comparable.

And my argument all along which you keep missing is that I am not comparing the extent or the intent of the attacks by Union on league to those by League on Union.

Genius.

 

[madunit]

Yet you geniuses wanted to argue with me anyway.

Go figure.

 

[betcats]

I wish RL had done more wrong to RU, a killer f**king blow would be nice.

 

[firechild]

I only argued against one point yet you seemed to have it in your head that I was making the same argument as others. I maintain my argument that you cannot claim someone who is trying to build their products image is not pure because they are attempting to increase market share. By definition, market share will always come at the cost of a competitor but that does not make it an evil thing to do.

 

[madunit]

do you think the competitor welcomes the negative effects it has on them?

 

[firechild]

No, but that doesn't make the intentions of the competitor any less pure. As I said from the start, it's how they go about it. I go back to my previous example, do you consider the kid who opens a lemonade stand on his front lawn to have committed a wrong against the local Coles because his product is going to take sales away from them? Being a competitor does not make the actions wrong. I'm not sure why you cannot understand that, it is a simple concept.

 

[Usain Bolt]

Has anyone blamed RU plants for creating Origin and making it bigger than international league yet?

 

[madunit]

No, but that doesn't make the intentions of the competitor any less pure. As I said from the start, it's how they go about it. I go back to my previous example, do you consider the kid who opens a lemonade stand on his front lawn to have committed a wrong against the local Coles because his product is going to take sales away from them? Being a competitor does not make the actions wrong. I'm not sure why you cannot understand that, it is a simple concept.

I understand what you are saying quite clearly.

Your analogy is a poor comparison.

League in Australia took Unions best players, The Wallabies, who won gold at London in 1908. They didn't take a bunch of mediocre run of the mill players.

They took the likes of Dally Messenger.

The went to Union nurseries like Private and Catholic schools and infiltrated them.

They approached touring Countries and asked them to change codes.

They didn't approach soccer, VFL, cricket, Tennis or Waterpolo competitions. Only Union.

Talk about Lemonade and Coles all you like, fact is League's actions improved League at the expense of Union and they were intentional.

 

[Perth Red]

Can you give us any examples in the last hundred years?