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Who replaces Cappy?

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,922
But having said that, in my opinion, there'll be a time - whether it be in the next 2 months if we keep losing, or by season's end - where he'll need to make a decision on McFadden, and not only that he'll need to make the right appointment to follow if he goes. Then we can judge. As I and others have said, Jim needed time to clean up Wayne's excrement from off his desk.

You're dead right, but whoever was selected after Elliot had the club by the balls,,
Theyd be a laughing stock 3 coaches in 2 years.

They have to ride the storm, gain some time and JD is the boy to get them through it...
 

Blair

Coach
Messages
11,204
You're dead right, but whoever was selected after Elliot had the club by the balls,,
Theyd be a laughing stock 3 coaches in 2 years.

They have to ride the storm, gain some time and JD is the boy to get them through it...

I'm dreading the post (and someone always posts it) when our practical chances of making the finals is laid out for all to see. Lately, it's always not good, basically telling us what the remaining draw is and what games we're likely to win, along with the consecutive games we have to win in order to get there (always something demoralising like nine wins from our last twelve games, with plenty of tough games in that scenario).

It's too early for it now, but it's coming isn't it? It's always been a bummer since 2012. The dream dies for another year when you read this post. It'd be particularly bitter this year, considering our gun signings from last year.
 
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JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,710
Maybe you are right, but the above still sounds like a case of severe doyle-lovitis.

.

Yeah, seems a lot have posters of Doyle on their wall...

McFadden is shit - other teams have substantially new spines and are going well - notably the Eels, but also Canberra, the Dogs... we trot out these shit excuses about giving them time to develop combinations (when unlike others RObson aside they've played for the Kiwis), when clearly something is wrong in a fundamental way - the preparation, combinations etc just look shit...

and was RTS this awful one-on-one with the Roosters? (loving his effort etc, but the one on one efforts have been abysmal)
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
3/4's a bit generous mate. 4/4 is more likely. Losses, I assume we are talking about.

I agree with the posts regards Jim Doyle. He gets a lot of sycophantic praise, but at the end of the day the whole club, top to bottom is judged on results. Jim seems to be quite resolute - McFadden is the man. But the more he stands by him, the more he is getting into a live by the sword, die by the sword scenario. Last year Jim said that it would be unacceptable for us to not make the top 6. Now I can give a little leeway with the injuries towards the end, but it was falling apart before Shaun got injured. We'd been belted by the Chooks, and were getting creamed by Manly when Shaun went down.

The real issue I have is that I just don't see any player development. Sam Lisone isn't developing. Albert Vete is ok but seems not to be developing now. Solomone Kata is developing. Tuimoala, for all the talk he is developing, he's a friggen half, not a winger. Games like last night where he was awful must dent his confidence. I don't see how sitting on the wing catching frostbite gives him any expertise in developing his halves game. Konrad Hurrell has basically gone from a wrecking ball who had problems with his defence to being an absolute powder puff. He needs to leave the club because if he stays here under Cappy he will be playing the equivalent of the second division NPC within 2 years such will be his decline in impact. Clubwise its the same. I know people say its too big a step up from NYC to first grade. But now the lads are going through NSW Cup generally, and they're just not excelling by and large. I know clubs would bend over backwards to have had SJ or Lolohea, but really SJ is not delivering on his potential. He's a middle of the road NRL half. Yet when he plays for the Kiwis he destroys blokes defensive reps. Another one who seems to have fallen off the face of the planet is David Fusitua. I know he's playing reggies, but I hear nothing of his performances.

I look at RTS, and see a bloke who frankly can't defend, but on attack is busting his chops for the team. He's doing well still, #1 in metres, I think 4 line break assists, 3 try assists. He's setting others up. But we have no structure to set HIM up. The Roosters put him into space repeatedly.

And the tactics, I don't get it. The analysis on Shaun going to 6 and Robson to 7 was to free Shaun up to run. He's playing as a classic #12 for a union team. He either gets it with no space, or if he does, he hands it along the line with little regard or engagement of the line. I can't believe they haven't addressed the fact that all season if he gets the ball and is about to go into contact, for some reason (I assume fear), he kicks it. The stats show Shaun is doing 80 odd percent of the kicking, not Robson. I noticed a few sets on Manly's line last night where Shaun received the ball only on tackle 5. Some of those sets RTS also didn't receive the ball. Listen to Shaun in the media, he seems preoccupied with defending himself and at times I would suggest he thinks he's doing a good job, when we know there is so much more. He plays so laterally. Its like at the moment he thinks the only times to run is when there is space on the outside or a try is a near certainty. Show some balls son, cut back towards tiring forwards behind the ruck and try on your footwork. If you don't make it through, a lot of the time you will get a quick ruck. It should also inspire the forwards to show some guts behind you.

Here is the largest criticism of McFadden. Last night, Trent Barrett came with one plan. Run up the middle, repeatedly, and try to get repeat sets. Get in the grind, and get good line speed. It frazzled the Warriors. They were so far off the pace and they had no clue how to counter act. It is like there is absolutely no plan B. Nothing changed. We didn't cut back against the grain to stop dominant tackles. No little tip on plays to create space. The #6 sat out on the edge waiting for space to be created, but then did nothing it seems to organise anything differently. It seems without Manu Vatuvei there to challenge the Manly pack, they knew they could walk all over us. Because they knew we had nothing else. For a team with the talents of Lolohea, SJ, RTS, Luke, guys who have the footwork to create damage, we did nothing to challenge the status quo. Surely a good coach has a plan to counter act it, and sends the message accordingly.

As much as Jim Doyle can smuggly smile at his off field achievements (and he's done well), the brand has taken a fair hit since 2011 because a succession of coaches (he's only been associated with one admittedly), are just not NRL grade coaches. G Toovey, I Cleary, good coaches are out there. Clearly's been there done that with the Warriors. But we blindly, naively go McFadden is the man. What's his winning percentage now - in the 30's? He's surely had long enough to say its a good enough sample of stats to suggest as much as he might be a good bloke, and he may even be quite clever and articulate, for whatever reason it is not working at the Warriors.
 

Blair

Coach
Messages
11,204
Cheers Iafeta. Great effort, great post. Warriors-wise, I'm gonna call it quits for the weekend with this ringing in my head.

Now for those Bulldogs...
 
Messages
17,770
How much time do you need to know a pigs ear aint going to ever be a silk purse? This game was the final straw for me - if I was in charge I'd fire McFadden now I reckon (if I could find an alternative, which I certainly would have been thinking about since end of last season, back up option.

I suspect we don't make the 8 he is gone at the end of the season.
I really don't see it happening mid season, due to previous treatment we have dished out.

Who to replace him???
Who will come?

We are like the ugly girl in those cheesey movie that has potential but needs a lot of polish to win the prom queen.
Every loss makes the wager (wage) for the pretty boy/jock to take us on, so no one is going to be rushing to say yes to us anytime soon (mid season) as price keeps goes up.
Plus we can't have anyone to take us to the prom, as it just won't work, we need a top pretty boy/jock.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
I suspect we don't make the 8 he is gone at the end of the season.
I really don't see it happening mid season, due to previous treatment we have dished out.

Who to replace him???
Who will come?

We are like the ugly girl in those cheesey movie that has potential but needs a lot of polish to win the prom queen.
Every loss makes the wager (wage) for the pretty boy/jock to take us on, so no one is going to be rushing to say yes to us anytime soon (mid season) as price keeps goes up.
Plus we can't have anyone to take us to the prom, as it just won't work, we need a top pretty boy/jock.

You know, I get that the club wants to avoid a reputation of not fulfilling coach contracts, or changing coaches mid season. But worse than that, they are getting a reputation as a club that is soft and that accepts mediocrity.

About 5-6 clubs have also changed clubs since we last did. I think most career coaches would be quite accepting that if you were into your third year and it never looked likely that you were going to get your team to the finals, and in the third year you had a rockstar spine (aside from an old dude that you personally wanted), that it would be fair enough that the club would look to replace you. Coaches know the fragile nature of the tenuous nature of career employment in this role. So I don't think potential coaches would be looking on in fair in terms of how McFadden was treated. If anything, the naive patience might be what concerns them.
 
Messages
17,770
It will never be public knowledge before the fact occurs, but I was hoping Bellamy was being courted before he signed with Storm.
Cleary (non premiership winning coach) is probably more likely to come than Toovey.
Hasler not available till 2018
Robinson the same 2018
Maguire also 2018.
Bennett won't come due to family.
Green is still talking with Cowboys about an extension, but why would he leave to come here? Even if for double the pay ($1.2million rumour)

Any other premiership winning coach in the last 10years out their?
 
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Skinner

Coach
Messages
13,581
Our second row is pedestrian on attack. Our forward pack is weakened to allow TL to cover the halves in a reserves jersey.
The side isn't being directed from the halves. Johnson is playing the role of a non-contact centre.
If there aren't some changes next week we will get slaughtered.

I think that's a pretty fair summation Rich.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,710
They'll play better this week, I think - not because of any coaching magic, just because (I trust) they have some pride and professionalism...

All the things you are true Rich, and the bottom line is we've beaten two poor teams, and shown nothing to suggest we can compete consistently - given the squad we have that's a disgrace
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,762
No, Warriors CEO Jim Doyle can't get away with that old line.

Like the bosses of all failing footy clubs, Doyle is in a tricky situation when it comes to the inevitable speculation around the future of the coach, in this case Andrew McFadden.

For club leaders like Doyle, it's a case of dammed if you do, dammed if you don't and dammed at all points in between. Offer no comment at all, and the media and fans will read between those non-existent lines as well.

But silence might be Doyle's best option because he is backing himself into a corner defending a coach who is in strife if the Warriors don't quickly escape the depths they sunk to against Manly. They had been unconvincing even in victory but the Manly game suggested serious problems lie within.

Concentrating the blame on the players - as Doyle has done - won't wash.


McFadden is in the gun, make no mistake about that. And he deserves to be. And what's more, McFadden - who played 100 NRL games - will know he deserves to be.

Doyle reckoned that "Cappy [McFadden] didn't drop balls and he didn't miss tackles and therefore our players need to be more and more accountable".

It's a snazzy line, and certainly not original. But it's only a line.

Coaches are responsible for creating the environment which determines how players perform. Absolutely. And what stands out about the Warriors right now is that the majority of players are below their best.

Like the bosses of all failing footy clubs, Doyle is in a tricky situation when it comes to the inevitable speculation around the future of the coach, in this case Andrew McFadden.Video
Watch: Andrew McFadden on coaching the Warriors
The Warriors folded against the Sea Eagles' efficiency. The players look confused about their roles, and it's that confusion which certainly does lead to dropped passes and missed tackles. The players have responsibility - Shaun Johnson, for instance, has had more than enough time to get beyond the learning phase and quite frankly he stinks as a leader in a controlling position and is inconsistent as a player. But to in any way remove the coach from the evaluation is a nonsense.

The fans and media have actually been quite patient and forgiving. Since the miracle try against Melbourne at Mt Smart last year, they've had two wins (against struggling clubs) to celebrate out of 14 games. No coach can or should escape the blowtorch with a record like that.

How much time does a coach get? Can't answer that, but the criticism can still go on. The Warriors' history of coaching changes doesn't protect McFadden from the barbs or the sack.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11621971
 

playdaball

Bench
Messages
3,525
If we're at 2 wins / 5 losses this evening (likely) something has to give and I believe it has to be the coach ... Simple. In a few weeks time we'll have our mid year revival and then slump again. We'll be talking about rebuilding for next year and beyond - not right for a club with our resources.
Despite that I'll still be there at the next home game hoping that they win.
 

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,816
After an uninspiring half time talk that gets you beat again. Only one more game, and you be 2-6 and my man Stacey gets a run. You might know him kiwis and Warriors legend.

stacey_jones_looks_on_at_a_training_run_after_retu_3678744674.jpeg
 

Blair

Coach
Messages
11,204
Interesting stat from nrl.com 'The Warriors attack has produced more points than any other team bar the Cowboys heading into round seven.'

Geez, that's snuck up on us, for a while there we didn't know where our next (clueless) try was coming from.
 

Cold Roses

Juniors
Messages
1,793
Interesting stat from nrl.com 'The Warriors attack has produced more points than any other team bar the Cowboys heading into round seven.'

Geez, that's snuck up on us, for a while there we didn't know where our next (clueless) try was coming from.

Which is all good and well. But with a points differential of minus 16, it would seem like we won't be winning any premierships in a hurry. That leaky defence continues to be our biggest problem.
 

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