Why does rugby league have trouble expanding internationally compared to other codes

[taipan]

RL had more money the Rugby for many of those years. Look at all the Rugby talent they bought with that money. Something they still do at the junior level I might add.

I can tell you, in France ru was supposedly amateur.Yet they were able to skim off the best rugby league junior talent(who could only play in clubs),because they could pay more.Shamateurism was alive and well in France.
Campese made a facetious comment about money in Italy with ru.

RL did indeed poach ru players ,because union was so backward in denying players the right to earn for decades.
When they finally twigged ,union went hell for leather in snatching rl players both in the UK ,and Australia and NZ,France it was already old hat.
I have no problem with players doing the best for themselves, in whatever sport.

What I do detest is discrimination in sport ,and that has been the basis of my argument all along.But people with tunnel vision ,seem to accept discrimination as being almost a social norm.

 

[Whatwhere]

Not necessarily, more to do with the head master or sport's master in state schools.
The issue should be all schools offering all sports.
It (rl)doesn't have access to all sectors of the education system in this country.

They are not being prevented from their traditional game FHS.Their old school tie obstinence in preventing the other rugby code by definition is a roadblock.Call it a barrier.It sure as hell is not user friendly.I've seen both sides having attended two of these schools.

Not necessarily, more to do with the head master or sport's master in state schools.
The issue should be all schools offering all sports.
It (rl)doesn't have access to all sectors of the education system in this country.

They are not being prevented from their traditional game FHS.Their old school tie obstinence in preventing the other rugby code by definition is a roadblock.Call it a barrier.It sure as hell is not user friendly.I've seen both sides having attended two of these schools.

You are aware that particularly public schools have finite budgets and their primary function is to educate the students. There are often not the resources to possibly offer all sports.

Quick question. What role within the school hierarchy would a Principal or Sports Co-Ordinator (no public school I know of label those roles as Head or Sports Master) occupy? Would you agree it would be the administrative role. As per my point above.

Regarding the likes of GPS/CAS they are not beholden to provide access to all sports. It's their perogative to determine which sport they wish to play. They also play a minor role in the grand scheme of these. Another excuse. RL doesn't have an invariable right to access every school.

 

[Whatwhere]

I can tell you, in France ru was supposedly amateur.Yet they were able to skim off the best rugby league junior talent(who could only play in clubs),because they could pay more.Shamateurism was alive and well in France.
Campese made a facetious comment about money in Italy with ru.

RL did indeed poach ru players ,because there was so backward in denying players the right to earn for decades.
When they finally twigged ,union went hell for leather in snatching rl players both in the UK ,and Australia and NZ,France it was already old hat.
I have no problem with players doing the best for themselves, in whatever sport.

What I do detest is discrimination in sport ,and that has been the basis of my argument all along.But people with tunnel vision ,seem to accept discrimination as being almost a social norm.

No one's denying previous indiscretions. But too many RL fans focus in on these as the sole reason for the lack of progress while overlooking the self-interest and insular attitudes that have stunted any possiblity of substantial growth.

Anyway, I'm tired and off to bed. We can recommence battle tomorrow.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

What a shock this merkin turned out to be a union knob.

Picked it from post one.

 

[deluded pom?]

RL had more money the Rugby for many of those years. Look at all the Rugby talent they bought with that money. Something they still do at the junior level I might add.

Utter bollocks.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

If I had to give a ratio union meddling to RL incompetency I'd estimate about 1:2, ie for every act of union meddling there have been two acts of rugby league incompetency.

Just look at the way league ran the world cup from 1954 onwards. They had the jump on union by decades and never did much with it.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

How many other sports have to put up with any meddling from other sports?

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

As far as I can tell NONE.

 

[taipan]

You are aware that particularly public schools have finite budgets and their primary function is to educate the students. There are often not the resources to possibly offer all sports.

Quick question. What role within the school hierarchy would a Principal or Sports Co-Ordinator (no public school I know of label those roles as Head or Sports Master) occupy? Would you agree it would be the administrative role. As per my point above.

Regarding the likes of GPS/CAS they are not beholden to provide access to all sports. It's their perogative to determine which sport they wish to play. They also play a minor role in the grand scheme of these. Another excuse. RL doesn't have an invariable right to access every school.

Having children attend state schools ,I'm fully aware of limited budgets.That being said it has not prevented fumble ball being played in many.
As long as codes provide D/Os and equipment , removed safety issues,that gets around the problem.
The Headmaster would have the final say and no doubt the P& C would be involved.Just as the Sports councils of GPS schools would be involved.

It's a free world as I have stated, that does not underpin the view that because a Private school system had ru as a traditional sport for decades (due to its historical and amateur basis), and as soon as the amateur tradition was broken in 1995,they continue pushing the same hollow tradition angle.

I've attended one of said schools, and whilst these same schools continue with the same holier than thou attitude ,union (their base sport)will continue to be called elitist.

And why should schools who also receive Fed Govt grants have the right to ban a certain code,because they consider it a threat to the status quo or they consider below them.
Let these same schools stop the BS, they have an expansive sporting curriculum.I know how the system works.Stacked would be an appropriate title.

I also notice St Augustines in the Manly area a non rl school, has finally agreed to a form of rl being played called M8s.

 

[taipan]

No one's denying previous indiscretions. But too many RL fans focus in on these as the sole reason for the lack of progress while overlooking the self-interest and insular attitudes that have stunted any possiblity of substantial growth.

Anyway, I'm tired and off to bed. We can recommence battle tomorrow.

Did anyone suggest these were the sole reasons?The trouble with you union guys and I used to be one, you look at the world with this tunnel vision, usually rammed down the throats and minds of us naive students who attended these schools.The ivory tower mentality everything is all is right with the sporting world.

Insular attitudes by ARL and NRL clubs ,more like it and they still look after themselves.However when basically the bulk of your financial resources are put into local rl comps (because the code was pro for decades),any grand opportunities to expand are limited.
Especially when the code is discriminated against in the past in France/Italy and Yugoslavia,recently and it continues in Sth Africa and Morocco.
2015(repeat 2015) before rugby league could be given the green light to coach rl in primary and high schools in France.Is that self interest or an insular attitude?

No other code on this planet has gone out of its way either directly or indirectly by involving Govts or Sporting commissions or sometimes schools, to have a competitor banned or removed or limited in its capacity.

The self interest mate ,yells out like a megaphone: rugby union. Perhaps like "we don't want competition".

BTW it was only in the 90s when rl staged a World 7s event in Sydney ,that the Fijian PM Rabuka gave his blessing for his country to have a team represented. Prior to that rl had as much opportunity to play in Fiji,as ice skating.Now you visit Fiji and there are many clubs and the game is in schools.And an academy is being set up in Suva.

 

[Knownothing]

How many other sports have to put up with any meddling from other sports?

The marketplaces in which ALL professional sports compete for space are competitive, to one degree or another.

Are you seriously saying that the AFL is not "meddling" when it openly claims that it is going to be the premier code in Western Sydney? Or doesn't that count?


Rugby league and rugby union have several characteristics in common. The name is the most important of these, similar ball, a fair degree of similarity in the games themselves. So it is axiomatic that to a large extent they will be competing for the same players, sponsors, supporters, venues, etc etc.



Why on earth would either one welcome the other into their patch? Would you expect the rugby league authorities in, say, Serbia, to welcome the entry of a rugby union competition?

 

[Whatwhere]

Utter bollocks.

Really? What part? The money bit or the buying of Rugby talent? Because there are many examples to suggest otherwise

 

[East Coast Tiger]

The marketplaces in which ALL professional sports compete for space are competitive, to one degree or another.

Are you seriously saying that the AFL is not "meddling" when it openly claims that it is going to be the premier code in Western Sydney? Or doesn't that count?


Rugby league and rugby union have several characteristics in common. The name is the most important of these, similar ball, a fair degree of similarity in the games themselves. So it is axiomatic that to a large extent they will be competing for the same players, sponsors, supporters, venues, etc etc.



Why on earth would either one welcome the other into their patch? Would you expect the rugby league authorities in, say, Serbia, to welcome the entry of a rugby union competition?

There's a difference between competing or even being unwelcoming and active and deliberate sabotage like we've seen in virtually every country where RL and ru exist and on a global scale such as the efforts of the irb to prevent RL being recognised. How many other sports have had rival sports actively lobby against their recognition by governing bodies, governments and world sporting bodies?

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Yeah a club poaches one player because they see potential in the new signing to strengthen their team. The other lot has its controlling arm put down in writing that they will poach a big name star every year because ..... ummmm .... they can.

 

[Stallion]

No, I haven't.

But you're talking about RL not being able to access less than .5% of all schools nationally. Outside that relative miniscule number there's no boundary. How do I know? Because I attended a private school. Which plays both but League has always been the primary. Produced a great many NRL players. As had every school we regularly played in my day. All private schools.

You are showing your pompous upbringing of selective ignorance and of course bigotry.

Is rugby league such an "inferior" code that it only has presence or is allowed in the primary area of some privately educated schools? Haven't heard of Knox, Joeys, Grammar & Kings playing rugby league? Please tell if they have!

Why isn't rugby league an option to be played for those children(developing young adults at a very impressionable age) at the secondary level in such private schools? I'm pretty sure its got a lot to do with ideological & systematic repression of a much more attractive code in rugby league. The logic is: "If these kids don't know about it(RL) and don't experience it, they won't know how good it is, and think that this (rugby union in secondary schools and the influential 'adult world') is the way to go.

In your response you have shown the farcical situation present in many private schools. If the kids can play rugby league at primary level then what's stopping them play at secondary level?

It is this very suppression and limiting of the code of rugby league that is clearly benefitting the code of rugby union as these young adults move onwards into high positions of influence in the business world. Some may not move on in this way but their is a high chance that this ingrained and systematic stance that rugby league endures as an "outcast" carries on as if this is the way things are supposed to be when these people move on elsewhere or cushion up in areas like the North Shore of Sydney etc. At the moment rugby union is aggressively targeting public schools with clinics etc.(And can do so! which is the point!) I doubt rugby league would be allowed such leverage in most private schools of Australia or for that matter the world!

I might add rugby union has a fear of rugby league as it(RL) is by far a more superior & attractive code of rugby and will have no issues with other codes getting "favours" as it is doing its level best in its devious systemic way to suppress rugby league at every angle everywhere.

Go and do some tackling practice. You need it! And for that matter "Try running hard onto the ball!" Enjoy ! The physicality may knock some bigotry out of you and sense in!

 

[Knownothing]

As far as I can tell NONE.

Is the Parramatta Eels Licensed Club still sponsoring the local rugby union club?

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Why what has that got to do with anything?

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Never said it was a two way street. Good on the eels being the bigger person in regards community sport even if it is #nion.

Something your lot could learn a lot about eh.

 

[Stallion]

Never said it was a two way street. Good on the eels being the bigger person in regards community sport even if it is #nion.

Something your lot could learn a lot about eh.

Exactly! ParraEel.
These RU types have no idea how unfair their "organizational/systematic repression" is and has been! Many of them choose to ignore/deflect it anyway, however the decent ones are astounded and empathize toward rugby league's plight. It's those people that are important in having knowledge of this discourse. And the RL people who know no better and their are plenty of them as well. The general public have no idea of what has been going on. These dudes(RU types) have their fingers in everything and are very adept at concealment and deflection along with change of tact. Another simple example is at the core face: Two Aussies that were playing amateur RU in Ireland in 2013 wanted to play RL in the off season. They approached the Irish RU administrator whom told them " You can play any other sport except for rugby league."

They've been doing it(repressing/stopping RL) for over 100 years! Hardly something other attractive/democratic rules based sports(like soccer)don't have to contend with and in such a systematic and establishment based way! I've always believed in "Live and let live" and democratic/free choice principles. Remembering that in the past ,one would have to be well travelled/wealthy and well educated to notice this repression and with rugby league's demographic mostly being pigeon holed to low socio-economic backgrounds, the likelihood of exposing and making this a genuine public discourse , especially in past decades, is low. The accessibility of the internet has made the debate easier to do but they(RU) still have their tricks at play. (deflection/irrelevant facts/denial/apathy/trolling etc)

Just hope the "good guys" RL can get the message out there and overcome this bigotry into the future. Now would be nice! And what about some damages bill to boot! Although we are dealing with a system that has propagated the union code for so many years in such a deceitful and conceited way that such reparations are probably pointless. But the true facts of rugby league's repression can still be known and that is achievable despite the obstacles.

These (RU)dudes are bigots well concealed and unsportsmanlike to the nth degree! They are the "shame" in "Shameteurism" which they know all about!

 

[CowboyFuriousFury]

Why on earth would either one welcome the other into their patch? Would you expect the rugby league authorities in, say, Serbia, to welcome the entry of a rugby union competition?

Aleast the league authority won't try to get another code banned like rugby has, aleast league is open to a fair competitive marketplace meanwhile rugby has undermined league in the past.