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1st Test: New Zealand v Australia at Wellington on Feb 12-16, 2016

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Of course he's overrated, he can't stay on the field long enough to be considered for selection.

Heh. But when he is on the field, he is nothing like the class of Hazelwood or Pattinson.

Hazelwood and Pattinson have displayed enough talent to demonstrate that they could be future ATGs.
 
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Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
103,486
Cummins is overated. I'd probably still have Lyon over him at the Gabba or Waca.

Hazelwood, Patto and Lyon are gun, the former 2 could be the best bowlers with Rabada and Shah for the next decade. Starc is good. Cummins is not special.

Lol. Cummins is potentially the best of the lot. Just needs to do some fking core work and stabilise his delivery stride or he'll end up another might have been with a shattered spine.
 

2 weeks

Coach
Messages
16,586
Cummins is overated. I'd probably still have Lyon over him at the Gabba or Waca.

Hazelwood, Patto and Lyon are gun, the former 2 could be the best bowlers with Rabada and Shah for the next decade. Starc is good. Cummins is not special.

Overrated?

One test & he was MoM against the number 1 ranked test team, on their patch
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Lol. Cummins is potentially the best of the lot. Just needs to do some fking core work and stabilise his delivery stride or he'll end up another might have been with a shattered spine.

I've watched him closely since he made a name for himself against SA.

I'd take Hazelwood and Pattinson ahead of him every day.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Overrated?

One test & he was MoM against the number 1 ranked test team, on their patch

Does one performance there now make Ben Stokes better than Sobers?

Hazelwood, Patto and Lyon will get you guys back to the top if the batters can carry on performing. Not Cummins. Mark my words.
 
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hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
154,146
Cummins could be anything if he can stay on the field, anyone who bowls 145km outswingers will get test wickets. Still only 22 plenty lf time for him to come good.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Cummins could be anything if he can stay on the field, anyone who bowls 145km outswingers will get test wickets. Still only 22 plenty lf time for him to come good.

But his overpitched attempted outswingers at 145 rocket straight down the ground off the bat.

Be an interesting thread to come back to.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
NZ needs to get a bit of merkin in them.

Boult and Southee are good bowlers but they seem too 'nice' (terrible word but I can't think of anything else at this juncture). Boult is always smiling. I reckon if he just looked stern and merkiny once in a bit, it'd do him wonders. Throw the ball back at the batsman; show them who is boss with the ball; some agro. Maybe even some zinc on the nose ;-)

I think the issue is more they bowl along the wicket and aren't good at bowling into the wicket. Australia got reverse swing as a result of the ball being belted into the wicket. Even young Milne, for all his pace, he has little in the way of bounce.

Most disappointing I thought was the way Guptill and Latham got themselves out. I'd say Australia have got some good plans to Williamson. Dry him up with short covers and mid wickets where on occasion he can hit on the up, and keep bowling full outside off stump. Seems to be defending out on 5th stump quite a lot and the Australians patiently kept at him. He needed to leave more and force them to bowl at him.

Hopefully this is the end for Mark Craig. Too many half tracker or full toss pies. Even Peter McIntyre was a better bowler than this fellow.

Well played Australia, comprehensive really.
 
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14,841
Cummins is a far more naturally talented bowler than the other two, but he simply cannot stay fit. Haze and Patto are developmentally and physically ahead of him so they will naturally be picked first, and rightfully so.

The way our bowlers keep going down I hazard a guess that they will all get their turn.
 

2 weeks

Coach
Messages
16,586
Does one performance there now make Ben Stokes better than Sobers?

Hazelwood, Patto and Lyon will get you guys back to the top if the batters can carry on performing. Not Cummins. Mark my words.

WTF

Cummins has played 1 test, got Mom against SA on their decks & you reckon he is overrated:crazy:

He has one performance at test level for you to judge him on, he was the best player over the course of the game, & somehow you've come up with an opinion that he is overrated

You seem to be confusing being injury prone with being overrated

I'll let you off the hook this time, but smarten up
 

Bazal

Post Whore
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103,486
I've watched him closely since he made a name for himself against SA.

I'd take Hazelwood and Pattinson ahead of him every day.

What, over all 8 of his FC games? You must be ever so proud

He has been hit and miss due to fitness obviously. Hence I said he needs to do core work, because he's not strong enough for his action. The fact is that none of our bowlers showed his quality at such a young age. Pattinson is yet to show anything more than Cummins has because his fitness is almost as bad, he's just had more chances. Starc took a long time to work into his own as a bowler.

Cummins ripped through one of the strongest batting lineups in the world at 18 years old. He bowls over 150km/h and swings the ball both ways white or red. If you can't see his potential, you know even less about cricket than I thought.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Cummins is a far more naturally talented bowler than the other two, but he simply cannot stay fit. Haze and Patto are developmentally

But a seam bowler to be successful does not need talent as much as they need discipline.

Hazelwood just presenting the seam endlessly on good line and lengths, does enough off the seam to be a real headache well before he gets some reverse shape going.

We can have this debate another time, but Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram like talent which James Anderson arguably had is not always better than Glen McGrath or Mohammad Asif discipline, who suceeded everywhere and in all conditions. Anderson improved his results when limiting his talent on display, and bowled a better line and length.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
103,486
Cummins is a far more naturally talented bowler than the other two, but he simply cannot stay fit. Haze and Patto are developmentally and physically ahead of him so they will naturally be picked first, and rightfully so.

The way our bowlers keep going down I hazard a guess that they will all get their turn.

He's also younger. Like I said, not really strong enough for his action at this stage.

I think people (general comment, not aimed at this post) forget that he's only 22 sometimes. Compared to the others at the same age, he is a much better bowler. He just needs to get fit and fox up his delivery stride, or he's going to damage his back really badly or snap an ankle.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
What, over all 8 of his FC games? You must be ever so proud

He has been hit and miss due to fitness obviously. Hence I said he needs to do core work, because he's not strong enough for his action. The fact is that none of our bowlers showed his quality at such a young age. Pattinson is yet to show anything more than Cummins has because his fitness is almost as bad, he's just had more chances. Starc took a long time to work into his own as a bowler.

Cummins ripped through one of the strongest batting lineups in the world at 18 years old. He bowls over 150km/h and swings the ball both ways white or red. If you can't see his potential, you know even less about cricket than I thought.

Like I say, come back to this thread. 5 years, 10 years and see who is right.

My money is on Patto (if he stays fit) and Hazelwood outperforming Cummins in test career (even if he stays fit).
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,706
We just have to wait on Cummins - could be anything, but fast bowling is a lottery - if he can't stay on the field he might end up with a Bond/Harris like career - he's young yet

No sure why there's discussion on McCullum - he is what he is, and obviously will play one more test - that was a shocking test performance all round - they'll be hurting
 

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