Dragons V Sharks Round 4

[Inisai Toga]

There was a very interesting article someone in the forum posted last year along the lines of qualitative vs quantitative type teams. Without re-explaing the categorical differences it suggested we always. struggle against quantitative type sides. Cronulla are in that category. This was really a repeat of the same game last year and we simply dont have the defensive techniques to combat that type of football. Carrying too many arm grabers and poor readers of defence in our roster to match these sides.
Well win games but i can’t for the life of me see how some would ever be confident when were up against these quantitive type teams and their style of play.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

Yes mate. And whenever the game is in the balance, you know the team will be blown away in the second half. WTF goes on at halftime? Are they all given laxatives and sleeping pills at half time? They are a rabble.

Well I certainly down need laxatives at half time !!!!!!

 

[Eion]

As much as I like beating up on little brother, it’s tough to take for fans. Sorry to say you guys are in for a rough ride for some time to come.

Nicho was lights out tonight, but as a supporter of a club that has been shit for most of its existence, the only way out is getting the right people in charge at the top. Smart, business savvy people in it for the right reasons. Changing the coach, buying a gun player (if any want to come) are only short term fixes. There’s got to be top shelf business leader dragon supporters out there willing to take this club on. Gotta somehow line them up to take over running the joint and chop the head off the snake.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

Hey Coffs Dragon that was classic comedy in your post. I’m keep bursting into laughter. Thanks for a good post!

Posters still trying to make excuses for the unremarkable and pedestrian Zac. He is trying and I’d never accuse him of not. Zac trys hard. No sarcasm, but he gets flustered imo when the good standard centres run through him or around him with superior speed. This leads to silly passes, poor play, poor reads.

In particular in the past few seasons he has absolutely no idea how to swerve, accelerate or make a clean break....he seems obsessed with running into opposition players and trying to use his strength to gain an advantage....now Im not sure whether thats how hes coached or lack of it

 

[kit66]

There was a very interesting article someone in the forum posted last year along the lines of qualitative vs quantitative type teams. Without re-explaing the categorical differences it suggested we always. struggle against quantitative type sides. Cronulla are in that category. This was really a repeat of the same game last year and we simply dont have the defensive techniques to combat that type of football. Carrying too many arm grabers and poor readers of defence in our roster to match these sides.
Well win games but i can’t for the life of me see how some would ever be confident when were up against these quantitive type teams and their style of play.

I'd like to read that article if you can re-post it.
The problem is though that last week, in 10 short minutes the Broncos gave the rest of the league a little blue-print on how to beat the Dragons, use your speedy fellas, attack wide and often. Qualitative or quantitative may play a part but a quick video session before you play the Dragons and you've got all the attacking strategy you need.

Lomax needs to be dropped, for his own good and for the good of the team - needed to happen the last two years running. He has no discipline, plays for himself only and 2-4 errors every game is not acceptable. Move Matt Feagai to centre ( he played there in lower grades) and put Amone or Treigh Stewart to wing for some speed out wide.

 

[2010Dragons]

These unfit dumb imposters have once again proven me right again. This they only played 21 minutes then back to the dumbest NRL TEAM.
unforced errors, dropped balls, trying to trip a player (how f**king dumb is that!!) kicking the ball out on the full from a dropout. Not playing the ball correctly in the ruck. Shirt grabbing, no leg tackles, none of these fake Dragons players need to worry about concussion, all they do is grab shirts.
the whole team looks so slow and unfit, who the f**k are the trainers?
As I predicted the sharks put on another cricket score.

 

[Crush]

I'll admit, I'm just scratching my head still at what transpired yesterday.
The two previous games they looked energetic, looked like they were playing for one another, looked semi confident. Yesterday they just didn't show up. At home. In a derby.
Its just so disappointing, having Sharks fans come into our forum giving advice to "little brother" dragons fans.
Makes my blood boil.
There is not enough pride in the team, they dont get it. Yesterday should have been their best game this year, not the Titans or Broncos, yesterday vs the Sharks FFS.
Embarrassed, humiliated, will take a while to cool off from that loss, hopefully they take some sort of lessons out of it however I doubt it.

 

[Dragon David]

And that's the difference in the quality of our coaching staff and player talent. As an old coach, I learnt early on yes have your game plan but you must have contingency plans and be able to introduce those plans during a game. Plus it helps if the players can carry out those plans.

This is right Jo. My take on our guys is that they are just not good enough. As simple as that. Fitness wise not the best, they don't appear to be able to think and read the game, our captain is not strong enough and overall not capable of turning things around. Forwards and good defence wins matches - we lack these bigger, stronger and good thinking guys. We just don't have any player who can take the game by the scruff of the jersey and get the team rolling in every minute of the game. Our team needs a guy like this.

If you look at each of our players and compared them to others in the positions they are in, you can see that there is a lack of quality.

Then we have an old hand coach and he has new assistants all of which don't appear to have the wisdom to set workable winning game plans against the different teams we play. If they just stick to the basic game plan for each game, well that's a loss for a start. I'm sure they don't actually do this but you just never know.

In summary, I just don't think that we have a squad and coaching staff competitive enough to win more games than losses and that is the key to being successful.

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

Round 2 was promising, Round 3 I gave them the benefit of the doubt due to the heat, but Round 4 was a sh*t show. By now I'm sure it's clear to the players that they are a significant level below the good teams. They won't be making the finals, they won't be getting many win bonuses, and anyone who has an Origin bonus in their contract can kiss that goodbye.

So where to from here? I see two choices. Either they can work hard, train hard, get their fitness to where it ought to be, and at least make other sides earn their wins. Or they can say stuff it, who cares, I'm on good coin, most fans won't leave because they're rusted on, management keep telling me how good I am, and if they didn't drop McCullogh last year they sure as hell won't drop me now.

We don't appear to have many men of character in this squad so I reckon it's most likely the latter, but I'll wait 4 weeks and see what happens.

 

[jodragon40]

I walked out of the ground w 25 to go.. totally did not expect this inept performance.. 15,000 supporters… all let down.. the team is really disjointed.. I saw Roosters Tupou at the game ..

if true Dessy w be given this season and next.. means Ryles sees out his Roosters contract and arrives 2025?

Don't want Ryles don't want Young or any other ex player no matter what era they are from. Coaching is a really tough gig at any level. We need a disciplinarian who walks into the sheds and tells it as it is. Then is able to walk into the boardroom and do exactly the same.

 

[jodragon40]

This is right Jo. My take on our guys is that they are just not good enough. As simple as that. Fitness wise not the best, they don't appear to be able to think and read the game, our captain is not strong enough and overall not capable of turning things around. Forwards and good defence wins matches - we lack these bigger, stronger and good thinking guys. We just don't have any player who can take the game by the scruff of the jersey and get the team rolling in every minute of the game. Our team needs a guy like this.

If you look at each of our players and compared them to others in the positions they are in, you can see that there is a lack of quality.

Then we have an old hand coach and he has new assistants all of which don't appear to have the wisdom to set workable winning game plans against the different teams we play. If they just stick to the basic game plan for each game, well that's a loss for a start. I'm sure they don't actually do this but you just never know.

In summary, I just don't think that we have a squad and coaching staff competitive enough to win more games than losses and that is the key to being successful.

Griffin is an old school coach who takes all the responsibility and decision making. His assistant coaches are there to be seen not heard, so last year we sacked both assistant coaches. Now no matter what business you are in if you have been hired to take the place of an employee who has been sacked you are not going there under your terms but theirs. This is an ingredient for disaster in my view.

 

[twinkletoes]

I don't know why anyone should be surprised about the last 2 weeks. During the offseason most on here could see our upcoming season was going to be disastrous given the total lack of recruitment within the club. Our forwards lack size and mongrel and unfortunately some of our backs have been shown to be way overrated....I include here Lomax who I have never seen make a proper break in 4 full seasons of grade (if anyone can show me a video of him in full flight I would love to see it) and Rava who I think needs a spell in the paddocks. Too many got carried away with our win over the Titans and unfortunately were lured into false hopes.

I really think we need to persevere with Sloan and Bud to see if they are really up to first grade standard in the longer term. We knew they would be a work in progress with many mistakes along the way but thats how you hone your skills to first grade...there are many more seasoned players who should be ashamed of their performances and discarded before those 2

 

[Parko1310]

Some of what I took from yesterday's game:

- I was confident up until I saw Musgrove was starting over Bird. I basically accepted at that point we were going down in this game. To me, it showed Hook wanted to go back to playing a boring, slow, non-expansive game. Now, we all know Hook usually does his interchanges by the clock. 12-14 minutes in (really early), I believe Hook realised his mistake of starting Musgrove and got Bird on. This cost us an interchange, and meant Mbye did not go off at the usual 20 minute mark. Mbye staying on meant we could not capitalise on our domination of the game between about the 15-30 minute mark. His holding up of the ball at the ruck doesn't let us get a roll on and slows our play down so much. If you look at the Su'a try, Mbye almost bombs what should've been such an easy four-pointer by holding the ball up at the ruck, the sharks almost managed to recover to get over to stop the try because of it.

- Zac Lomax is currently the worst centre in the NRL, possibly the worst player. There are some average duds in the NRL, but the negative of Zac Lomax makes him far worse. The ability to pull off an incredible play once a season doesn't make you a good player, he should be dropped. Not even his goal kicking is of any use anymore. He is another player who slows down our play drastically by throwing players off his back before playing the ball, crawling around on the ground far enough that every two play the balls he's told to go back and play it. He can't even take a high ball anymore either, he's actually regressed as a player, he's horrible and a thorn in the side of this team. His defence is so so poor. I don't know why he has ever been credited with being a good defender either, this was his main problem coming into grade when he did. He rushes in and leaves his winger posted. I cannot believe how Michael Ennis during the commentary blamed Mat Feagai for one of the tries scored when Lomax rushes up past the ball and got no one. With Feagai left in a two on one, was he not going to try and tackle the ball carrier? Not to mention Lomax continues to nominate himself for the "biggest cock in the NRL award" weekly, up there with cody walker.

- Sloan and Bud are far from the issue with this team, you can see them getting better. Continual improvement in young players is important, it shows that they're learning and actually taking on board ways to improve their game. Sloan's try saver was incredible, let's not forget how badly the odds were stacked against him in that situation. Does he even attempt a proper tackle in that situation last year? Probably not. It's a low bar, but that is improvement in an area that desperately needed it, and he has now come up with two try savers in as many weeks.

- Blake Lawrie tries hard, but he continues to confirm what many will refuse to admit. Simply, he is not good enough. He has rightly earned himself appraisal from many who doubt him, but he just doesn't have it in him. He's not who you want leading your pack, he's a bench prop at best and doesn't even make the 17 at many other NRL teams. He is the first picked prop at the Dragons. Let that sink in.

 

[Inisai Toga]

I'd like to read that article if you can re-post it.
The problem is though that last week, in 10 short minutes the Broncos gave the rest of the league a little blue-print on how to beat the Dragons, use your speedy fellas, attack wide and often. Qualitative or quantitative may play a part but a quick video session before you play the Dragons and you've got all the attacking strategy you need.

Lomax needs to be dropped, for his own good and for the good of the team - needed to happen the last two years running. He has no discipline, plays for himself only and 2-4 errors every game is not acceptable. Move Matt Feagai to centre ( he played there in lower grades) and put Amone or Treigh Stewart to wing for some speed out wide.

Ill see if i can find Kitt66. May take me a while to find…

 

[Victoire]

Some of what I took from yesterday's game:

- I was confident up until I saw Musgrove was starting over Bird. I basically accepted at that point we were going down in this game. To me, it showed Hook wanted to go back to playing a boring, slow, non-expansive game. Now, we all know Hook usually does his interchanges by the clock. 12-14 minutes in (really early), I believe Hook realised his mistake of starting Musgrove and got Bird on. This cost us an interchange, and meant Mbye did not go off at the usual 20 minute mark. Mbye staying on meant we could not capitalise on our domination of the game between about the 15-30 minute mark. His holding up of the ball at the ruck doesn't let us get a roll on and slows our play down so much. If you look at the Su'a try, Mbye almost bombs what should've been such an easy four-pointer by holding the ball up at the ruck, the sharks almost managed to recover to get over to stop the try because of it.

- Blake Lawrie tries hard, but he continues to confirm what many will refuse to admit. Simply, he is not good enough. He has rightly earned himself appraisal from many who doubt him, but he just doesn't have it in him. He's not who you want leading your pack, he's a bench prop at best and doesn't even make the 17 at many other NRL teams. He is the first picked prop at the Dragons. Let that sink in.

Blake Lawrie topped our metres run count among the forwards, and topped our tackle count for the whole team. Sure, he never ever passes the ball... but he's obviously under instruction to never pass it. He's a long way from a problem on this team.

I also think the Musgrove-Bird thing was fine in theory, based on how Bird ran out of gas at the end of the Broncos game. I didn't mind the move but there are better ways to go about it, and, imo, solve the Mbye problem at the same time (i completely agree, Mbye's dummy half service is horrendous and getting worse). I'd start Connor Muhleisen at 9 and move him to lock to give Bird a rest at some point

 

[RedVee_8]

I think that a young coach would have his career killed coaching this team.
If we can get a Hasler or a Flanagan I’d want them to be a 2 year only appointment clearing the way for a Young/Ryles/Hornby or perhaps a Ryan Carr.

Whether or not they’d accept the role under those conditions is the question

 

[Como Connection]

Blake Lawrie topped our metres run count among the forwards, and topped our tackle count for the whole team. Sure, he never ever passes the ball... but he's obviously under instruction to never pass it. He's a long way from a problem on this team.

I also think the Musgrove-Bird thing was fine in theory, based on how Bird ran out of gas at the end of the Broncos game. I didn't mind the move but there are better ways to go about it, and, imo, solve the Mbye problem at the same time (i completely agree, Mbye's dummy half service is horrendous and getting worse). I'd start Connor Muhleisen at 9 and move him to lock to give Bird a rest at some point

Connor not in the top 30, cannot happen.
CC

 

[Parko1310]

Blake Lawrie topped our metres run count among the forwards, and topped our tackle count for the whole team. Sure, he never ever passes the ball... but he's obviously under instruction to never pass it. He's a long way from a problem on this team.

I also think the Musgrove-Bird thing was fine in theory, based on how Bird ran out of gas at the end of the Broncos game. I didn't mind the move but there are better ways to go about it, and, imo, solve the Mbye problem at the same time (i completely agree, Mbye's dummy half service is horrendous and getting worse). I'd start Connor Muhleisen at 9 and move him to lock to give Bird a rest at some point

Stats like most metres can be deceiving. He also had the most runs at 19, meaning he averaged only about 7 metres per run. That's what my point is. Yes, he had good stats, but that's because he has a lot involvement. The involvement is not necessarily quality involvement. He also had way more minutes than any other prop in our team with 68. His next closest competitor in terms of minutes was Molo with 49. It's all effort and I will love him for the effort he puts in, but he is ineffective. Good player to have around the squad/team on the bench, but not a forward pack's leader. With the passing thing, he stated on a podcast during pre season he wants to pass more and has been encouraged to do so.

In terms of Muhleisen, I agree he'd be a better option than Mbye for that first 20 minute period. Seems to be solid enough defensively, and at the very least clearly a better defender than Mbye is. Better service too. Essentially, better dummy half. With the signing of the two manly props, our top 30 is full though, even with the departure of Woods, so we'd have to let someone else go or wait until after round 10, By then, the season might be gone.

 

[Saints Forever]

I was surprised at Liddle’s lack of fitness. Definitely not an 80 minute player.

Bird and Lomax currently adding nothing.

Looking at our 30 man squad, we barely have 20 average players to choose from.

The players looked emotionally drained.

Five hit ups and a kick down the throat of the opposing full back is a losing recipe.

 

[jodragon40]

Some of what I took from yesterday's game:

- I was confident up until I saw Musgrove was starting over Bird. I basically accepted at that point we were going down in this game. To me, it showed Hook wanted to go back to playing a boring, slow, non-expansive game. Now, we all know Hook usually does his interchanges by the clock. 12-14 minutes in (really early), I believe Hook realised his mistake of starting Musgrove and got Bird on. This cost us an interchange, and meant Mbye did not go off at the usual 20 minute mark. Mbye staying on meant we could not capitalise on our domination of the game between about the 15-30 minute mark. His holding up of the ball at the ruck doesn't let us get a roll on and slows our play down so much. If you look at the Su'a try, Mbye almost bombs what should've been such an easy four-pointer by holding the ball up at the ruck, the sharks almost managed to recover to get over to stop the try because of it.

- Zac Lomax is currently the worst centre in the NRL, possibly the worst player. There are some average duds in the NRL, but the negative of Zac Lomax makes him far worse. The ability to pull off an incredible play once a season doesn't make you a good player, he should be dropped. Not even his goal kicking is of any use anymore. He is another player who slows down our play drastically by throwing players off his back before playing the ball, crawling around on the ground far enough that every two play the balls he's told to go back and play it. He can't even take a high ball anymore either, he's actually regressed as a player, he's horrible and a thorn in the side of this team. His defence is so so poor. I don't know why he has ever been credited with being a good defender either, this was his main problem coming into grade when he did. He rushes in and leaves his winger posted. I cannot believe how Michael Ennis during the commentary blamed Mat Feagai for one of the tries scored when Lomax rushes up past the ball and got no one. With Feagai left in a two on one, was he not going to try and tackle the ball carrier? Not to mention Lomax continues to nominate himself for the "biggest cock in the NRL award" weekly, up there with cody walker.

- Sloan and Bud are far from the issue with this team, you can see them getting better. Continual improvement in young players is important, it shows that they're learning and actually taking on board ways to improve their game. Sloan's try saver was incredible, let's not forget how badly the odds were stacked against him in that situation. Does he even attempt a proper tackle in that situation last year? Probably not. It's a low bar, but that is improvement in an area that desperately needed it, and he has now come up with two try savers in as many weeks.

- Blake Lawrie tries hard, but he continues to confirm what many will refuse to admit. Simply, he is not good enough. He has rightly earned himself appraisal from many who doubt him, but he just doesn't have it in him. He's not who you want leading your pack, he's a bench prop at best and doesn't even make the 17 at many other NRL teams. He is the first picked prop at the Dragons. Let that sink in.

Exactly how I view it. I said in 2021 the coach had lost the respect of the playing group. Also that Lawrie is a workhorse, you need players like that in your engine room but off the bench. There's something not quite right with Lomax has ability but unfortunately needed the right coach to develop him and that didn't happen. In fact under this coach the juniors have failed to be developed. I said that I wouldn't be surprised if Sullivan and Sloan are released or seek a release if Griffin remains. The coach certainly did make a tactical error in starting Musgrove. Being involved albeit many moons ago as a coach I can safely say that this current playing group are not playing for each other or the coach