Expansion 10 years away: Gallop

[herbert henry1908]

This is war, the NRL needs to embrace its heartland.

I'd rather see a Dubbo side than Melbourne.

you have to be friging kidding me!

dubbo over Melbourne?!

do you really beleive the big bad AFL are coming after dubbo:lol: they couldnt give a rats about dubbo.

In war you dont emrbrace your "heartland" you go on a full frontal attack for their heartland.

sure lets sit back and have a team in dubbo and forget about melbourne and perth while the AFL are setting up a team on the gold coast and doing everything wihtin their power to make brisbane and syndey work:sarcasm:

why is it that some rugby league fans are so insular? if we have a great product lets take it to the masses , let them see what we love so much about rugby league.

if we sit around relying on NSW and QLD forever the game is going to DIE.

 

[badav]

Saying that a team in Wellington would negatively affect the Warriors crowds, is like saying having a team in Brisbane would negatively affect the crowds of a team in Sydney.

You must be joking right?? There are already 10 teams in sydney where the market is well and truly saturated.

On the other hand, there is one team in all of new zealand which is an entirely different story. So i think your "analogy" is way off the mark. You would be silly if you didnt think there was people outside of auckland supporting the warriors and contributing their money in some form or another towards the club (whether it be ticket sales, membership, or merchandise sales).

Are you also forgetting that auckland has 3 times the population of Wellington and is a much bigger city as well. Yet the warriors (an auckland based team) still struggle to bring in big crowds or significant revenue.

Bringing another team to NZ is a pipe dream and should stay that way until it can be made possible which is obviously not now or in the near future.

 

[shaggy]

Where is Adelaide? :roll: :lol: Oh they got 6000 to an NRL game last year, yeah such great support.....

hey, it was easter saturday night and their had been a race meeting that day, the storm did a few clinics, considering they had the bye the week before (and it wasnt even their home game) it was very generous of them, both teams flew in around the thursday before the game had a training session at hindmarsh, played the game on the saturday then left on the sunday, i dont think it was the best promotion for the game,

hopefully adelaide can keep being part of the nrl qantas blitz every year, and get teams to come down and play trials & nrl games and put a team in the new second tier comp, along with the reds then well be ready for the nrl in about 5-10 years,

the aru didnt give adelaide a team in the new apc but gave it the sevens at easter so interestin to see how that all goes

ive said before i can see reasons for the south australian based team to be the next in the comp and also after the second nz team and the reds

if superleague itnroudce their new propsed lower overseas based quota then its only going to increase the player pool here and help expansion clubs

 

[nqboy]

Pal, I have never met a Lawyer who was EVER an idiot.

Come to work with me, there's dozens of them hanging round the courts.

 

[perth sharkie]

I don't mean to be negative or defeatist, but I think that Gallop is right, the NRL has to be careful with expansion.

I'd love to see the Western Reds come back to Perth, but face it, rugby league screwed up in WA ten years ago and with a crappy yawnion team playing in an oversaturated Perth market, the chances of a successful RL team in WA is limited.

Gosford is another dilemma. There is no doubt that the area could support an NRL team and a new Central Coast franchise would probably be ideal, but there are so many teams from NSW already. And a relocated Sydney team probably wouldn't win much support there, which means there isn't much of an incentive to start a team there until something gives with one of the Sydney clubs.

Wellington is an unknown, NZ teams in Australian sporting competitions have generally been failures, so for the NRL to take on two clubs from NZ would be unprecedented.

That said, I hope that the NRL can continue to expand, this code has a lot of potential, unlike AFL which has probably already reached its peak.

 

[donkey|rope]

As far as I'm concerned, if you want to wait 10 years to put a team in Perth, then you are 5 years too late. The NRL should be working to put a new franchise in Perth by 2012. The best thing to do would be to sound out News Ltd, they are selling out of Townville, maybe they can be enticed to come up with some start up capital to help build a Perth franchise with a 10 year timeline once established by which the team would be sold off in a similar way to the Cowboys, or be forced to fold. It would make sense for them to get involved in Perth; there are so many NSW and QLD expatriates who are potential subscribers to Foxtel and who would be interested in support in a Perth Rugby League team. Additionally, the population and the growth rate within the area represents so much opportunity.

As far as the Central Coast goes, Gallop is right; it makes no sense to bring a new franchise into that area. A Sydney team (not a NSW, QLD, ACT, VIC) has to relocate. It's just a case of which will come under enough financial stress to set sail of greener pastures and brighter beaches.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

As far as I'm concerned, if you want to wait 10 years to put a team in Perth, then you are 5 years too late. The NRL should be working to put a new franchise in Perth by 2012.

Yep. I reckon that if they added added Perth in 2010-12 and no-one else that it wouldn't be much of a problem. An uneven comp is a small price to pay to make sure that the WA market stays competitive.

 

[herbert henry1908]

As far as the Central Coast goes, Gallop is right; it makes no sense to bring a new franchise into that area. A Sydney team (not a NSW, QLD, ACT, VIC) has to relocate. It's just a case of which will come under enough financial stress to set sail of greener pastures and brighter beaches.

I think the other big problem with the central coast is other than the $8m relocation incentive and john singelton there is little in the way of ongoing commercial sponsorship support.

the area has such a massive proportion of its population travel to sydney and hornsby area for work there is little in the way of business up there.

 

[Dave Q]

you have to be friging kidding me!

dubbo over Melbourne?!

do you really beleive the big bad AFL are coming after dubbo:lol: they couldnt give a rats about dubbo.

In war you dont emrbrace your "heartland" you go on a full frontal attack for their heartland.

sure lets sit back and have a team in dubbo and forget about melbourne and perth while the AFL are setting up a team on the gold coast and doing everything wihtin their power to make brisbane and syndey work:sarcasm:

why is it that some rugby league fans are so insular? if we have a great product lets take it to the masses , let them see what we love so much about rugby league.

if we sit around relying on NSW and QLD forever the game is going to DIE.

The Melbourne experiment has been a miserable failure. Its a constant blight on the game.

We should pull up stumps in the southern state and create an "East Coast Fortress" along with our New Zealand and pacific islander brothers.

Thats the future, not parading around like strumpets in the 'foreign' states of Australia.

League is under attack everywhere in NSW.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

We should pull up stumps in the southern state and create an "East Coast Fortress" along with our New Zealand and pacific islander brothers.

Thats the future, not parading around like strumpets in the 'foreign' states of Australia.

League is under attack everywhere in NSW.

And that would just snowball if the AFL states realise that their backyards aren't being threatened, they would double/triple/quadruple their current attempts at cracking the QLD/NSW/ACT market.


Not to mention that the only reason the Swans are getting any time on the news is because they're so successful. It won't last, look at how weak the Brisbane Lions are now just a few years after winning a hat-trick of premierships, compared to RL in Brisbane/Queensland being the strongest it's been for ages.

 

[Quidgybo]

Well we have 16 at the moment...

To be precise we have 15 Australian teams, one less than we had in the golden years prior to the big expansion in 1995. We also have one NZ team, which opened up a new and largely self sufficient market that now brings $12m per year into the game from television alone as well as providing its own player, fan and sponsorship bases.

...and all you guys want W.A, S.A and a new NZ team thats 19 and a team on the CC makes 20. Might as well just bring the Jim Beam cup team in, beacuse thats about the standard of play that will be created in a 20 team competition.

It helps if you actually follow the argument for a while before flying off on such wild tangents. No one has suggested introducing four new teams in the foreseeable future. The present debate purely concerns whether the game could deal with one or two more sides within the next decade and which of the most likely candidates, WA, Central Coast or Wellington the next expansion should include. In light of that your point, while perhaps accurate, is largely irrelevant to the question being discussed.

Leigh.

 

[Quidgybo]

The challenge that I see is this no matter the code or sport is that just, expanding the number of teams just wont cut it anymore, simply because it's just no longer feasible. The trick is to find away to expand without "expanding" if you will.

That is only partially true. There is nothing wrong with increasing the number of teams as long as the areas being introduced are self sufficient. By that I mean, not only do they bring new fans, but crucially their own player, sponsorship and television rights bases. A professional football competition might conclude that Australia only produces enough quality players each year to maintain 16 first class teams at a reasonable standard and therefore it decides to never admit a 17th or 18th Australian team (this is exactly what the AFL has done). But that doesn't preclude New Zealand, with its own stock of players, providing a 17th, 18th, and maybe even a 19th team to the same standard. New Zealand is a separate market that can provide its own players, corporate sponsors and perhaps most importantly, a new source of television revenue. Introducing new teams from New Zealand doesn't need to cut into the Australian teams share of the television pie, because they bring more pie with them. And New Zealand teams don't need to dilute the Australian sponsorship market because they bring their own corporate base with them.

AFL is trying the Relocation/2nd home approach

Because they don't have any traction outside Australia. Any new AFL teams in Australia will only dilute the existing player base, cut the television pie thinner and place additional pressure on the sponsorship market. The game has no choice but to redistribute existing teams to achieve its expansion aims. Rival codes like RL, Union and Soccer have the advantage of access to an additional market. They're able to sell their games to a population base of 24m people whereas the AFL are pretty much limited to a base of 20m. Generally 24m can support more teams than 20m.

Leigh

 

[Perth Red]

If Gallop is waiting for Perth TO BECOME A RL CITY then we can kiss goodbye to ever having a National game and watch as AFL moves further ahead and soccer (and god forbid RU) move up on us.

Here's a novel idea Gallop, how about having a vision and strategy and getting off your backsides and doing something about MAKING Perth a RL city? It worked for the ARU!!!!!

 

[cumberlandsashes81]

If Gallop is waiting for Perth TO BECOME A RL CITY then we can kiss goodbye to ever having a National game and watch as AFL moves further ahead and soccer (and god forbid RU) move up on us.

Here's a novel idea Gallop, how about having a vision and strategy and getting off your backsides and doing something about MAKING Perth a RL city? It worked for the ARU!!!!!

I've already posted this on another thread but it's important to remember that the ARL are supporting the Reds' development - the NRL is there to represent the interest of its current stakeholders (it's 16 license holders who want sustainable development that won't leave them all in financial straits.)

Ultimately, it's primarily the ARL's job to develop Perth into an area that can hold an NRL license and do so in a way that adds to the game in Australia (Jnr numbers, sponsorship, media coverage, etc.) rather than is just an area that is a weak link.

Obviously the NRL should be doing its bit - i.e. taking games across there, etc. but aside from that Gallop is just echoing what the license holders already think.

Because they don't have any traction outside Australia. Any new AFL teams in Australia will only dilute the existing player base, cut the television pie thinner and place additional pressure on the sponsorship market. The game has no choice but redistribute existing teams to achieve its expansion aims. Rival codes like RL, Union and Soccer have the advantage of access to an additional market. They're able to sell their games to a population base of 24m people whereas the AFL are pretty much limited to a base of 20m. Generally 24m can support more teams than 20m.

Excellent point. AFL has a definite ceiling on its expansion that RL doesn't have - I find it strange that the bean counters in the media organisations don't seem to see this. The markets for Soccer, RU and RL are all far larger and can potentially absorb expansion easier. The markets these sports sell into are larger than the 24m you've quoted -- for example, Australian Soccer is moving into Asia and RU has South Africa/Europe as well. RL also has the UK market, France, PNG and NZ to sell to and gain capital flows from. Also, RL is still incredibly under-exposed in the Australian market.

 

[Perth Red]

Don't disagree but when Gallop comes out with statements like " I have doubts Perth will ever have a NRL team" don't you think this is somewhat damaging to the ARL/WARL's work to get to the point where Perth is capable of hosting a NRL team?

The other point is surely Gallop's job is to make bring in as much dosh for the NRL as possible. Anybody can see (in fact EVERY professional sport in Australia has seen it EXCEPT the NRL!) that having a booming city like Perth in will lead to greater TV and sponsorship monies?

 

[KalgoorlieRed]

Gallop = Incompetent idiot

Plan = he should be sacked!!

 

[Perth Red]

Never ceases to amaze me how we can have such a great game on the field and such idiots running it off it!

 

[cumberlandsashes81]

Don't disagree but when Gallop comes out with statements like " I have doubts Perth will ever have a NRL team" don't you think this is somewhat damaging to the ARL/WARL's work to get to the point where Perth is capable of hosting a NRL team?

The other point is surely Gallop's job is to make bring in as much dosh for the NRL as possible. Anybody can see (in fact EVERY professional sport in Australia has seen it EXCEPT the NRL!) that having a booming city like Perth in will lead to greater TV and sponsorship monies?

Yeah, his comments are narrow-minded and really demotivating (is that a word?) for the WAR and the ARL development people in WA. He should be talking up RL all over Australia. It was disappointing for me to hear... and one of those things that, if it comes true, will mark him down as poor leader of the game.

Perhaps he was issuing a challenge for the development areas to prove themselves - or perhaps he's just a narrow-minded, boring bean-counter who sees the NRL in a pretty good position and wants to just let it ride... Just remember Gallop is unlikely to be in the job in 10 years time.

 

[Perth Red]

Also, RL is still incredibly under-exposed in the Australian market.

and if the NRL does nothing about it, it will remain so for ever more! Potential is only useful if you realise it!!

 

[Rockin Ronny]

The only way a team will sit on the Central Coast is if a Sydney team relocates. You all bleat about expansion but complain that there's not ANOTHER team, some of you want another two, in NSW. The Central Coast already had a team but they voted with their team and lost their chance. Because of that, how stupid would an existing Sydney-based NRL football club need to be to try that again?

There is only one way expansion can move forward, and that is via the further culling of Sydney teams.

Ask any Bears fan. the CC Bears is a nwe team AND a relocation. The NRL have worked hard to ensure that the CC Bears is not in the NRL. They use all of these old excuses but they're rubbish. Also, Bears weren't broke - their Leagues Club put millions into them after administration. That's why Bears fans are so angry about their continued exclusion. NRL probably hates Singo - but that's not a reasonable way to run a business.

As for Gallop - he's a News limited lackey who does the bidding of his masters. And most lawyers know the "law", not business. He's an idiot. he even said his greatest achievement was the Titans. Not very impartial for Bears fans.