Manu Vatuvei - Coming to your club! (no spoilers)

[attila_the_gorilla]

A lot of fans, myself included are sometimes tempted to call for him to be moved to the pack. His defense would not be such an issue in the middle, less exposed than on the wing. And he pretty much has the same workrate as a forward anyway, I think he could handle it. He would need to just focus on catching the ball and running hard at the halves or centres. A bit like Dave Taylor and Tony Williams. No added pressure of catching bombs, grubbers etc. A the moment being on the wing his comparative advantage in attack is limited to hit-ups. If he were closer to the middle, he would be a constant threat with his speed/size ratio and always draw 2 or 3 defenders in good attacking positions.

 

[beefstew]

Why do i get a feeling you plucked that average out of your ass ? Who is included in this average ?


Manu would be a walk on starter for every club in the NRL.

LOL at some simpleton comparing him to Perrett and Morris.

Perrett cannot cross the line and Morris is only good for finishing the second man set plays that Boyd used to set-up.

nrlstats.com, or nrl.com has player summaries.

Was it his 20 errors or his 22 missed tackles out of 48 made that you dont believe?...thats pretty
damn close to missing 1 tackle for every 2 he makes, good luck finding a percentage worse than
that.

Vatuvei is only good for prop these days...whatever he had in the early part of his career is gone,
now theres just a prop, out of his depth on the wing, doing his team more damage than good.

 

[beefstew]

A lot of fans, myself included are sometimes tempted to call for him to be moved to the pack. His defense would not be such an issue in the middle, less exposed than on the wing. And he pretty much has the same workrate as a forward anyway, I think he could handle it. He would need to just focus on catching the ball and running hard at the halves or centres. A bit like Dave Taylor and Tony Williams. No added pressure of catching bombs, grubbers etc. A the moment being on the wing his comparative advantage in attack is limited to hit-ups. If he were closer to the middle, he would be a constant threat with his speed/size ratio and always draw 2 or 3 defenders in good attacking positions.

exactly...his defense is garbage when he has to make decisions, I think he has quite a good front on technique,
a damn sight better than his wing defense at least.

His hands are also at their worst under pressure, there is still some pressure on hit-ups, but nothing
like on the wing, dealing with the things you mentioned.

Playing him off the bench as an impact forward can only be good for the team, we still get some good
go forward from him, which lets face it, is all we're really getting now...without the ridiculous amount
of errors and defensive flaws that are a constant in his game on the wing at the moment.

and we would still have a great club man in the team.

 

[Shorty]

Confidence player.
And what's with the comments about him giggling when he makes errors? I've never seen that, I can tell that he actually thinks about it for too long and that's when he becomes crappy.
If he stuffs up it stays in his mind for way too long, he thinks about stuff too much.
Matty Bowen does it as well.
That won't ever change that's how he is, you take the good with the bad....Vatuvei makes some howlers but he's also impossible for bring down quickly and gets his team on the front foot when he doesn't stuff up.

Would I want Vatuvei at the Cows? Yes, but not on the wing.

 

[tangalife]

2 years ago Manu was unstoppable. Confidence. All his bad points turn out to be strong points when he's on.

He seems to be pretty concerned with his body after his bad injury in round 1 last year that kept him out for most of the season. Seems like he doesn't want to run it as hard anymore because it will hurt.

Also teams are really countering manu now. Warriors use him first hit up off the scrum, its never effective because players just rush him - not many people scared of him as they used to be.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Don't know why you are laughing. It is true. Sure, he might be devastating close to the line, but that rarely ever happens because he drops the ball time after time. He's a hack who is built like a brick shithouse. Physical presence doesn't make a great player.

You described him as one of the worst players in the league which is laughable. His form has been down this year and he deserves critism but people constantly forget his great handling when he scores a try yet constantly bring up his bad handling when he drops the odd ball. To describe him as one of the worst players in the league is crazy talk.

The fact that we are discussing a winger and his influence on a team is proof for mine of how good he is. What other winger in the competition has as much influence on the form and performance of their side?

 

[Iafeta]

2 years ago Manu was unstoppable. Confidence. All his bad points turn out to be strong points when he's on.

He seems to be pretty concerned with his body after his bad injury in round 1 last year that kept him out for most of the season. Seems like he doesn't want to run it as hard anymore because it will hurt.

Also teams are really countering manu now. Warriors use him first hit up off the scrum, its never effective because players just rush him - not many people scared of him as they used to be.

Did you see how hard repeatedly he ran into the teeth of the Kangaroos pack on Friday night? They're not shrinking violets, they're a hardcore pack of forwards.

As far as players gang tackling him, often he'll still get a decent play-the-ball opening up room on the edges for the likes of Mateo and Johnson to carve up.

 

[Spanner in the works]

You described him as one of the worst players in the league which is laughable. His form has been down this year and he deserves critism but people constantly forget his great handling when he scores a try yet constantly bring up his bad handling when he drops the odd ball. To describe him as one of the worst players in the league is crazy talk.

He drops far more times than he scores. Building and maintaining pressure is everything in this game.

The fact that we are discussing a winger and his influence on a team is proof for mine of how good he is. What other winger in the competition has as much influence on the form and performance of their side?

Performance of the side when his hands come into play? Yeah, he influences how much defence they have to do significantly. :roll:

 

[kia ora storm]

I find it quite funny that this comes off the back of the test match where he made one simple error, the other errors he made other players would have made, or possibly wouldn't have because they wouldn't have even been trying the play in the first place. He's criticised for that error, yet he kept one set going when throwing a Harry Houdini pass back in field when he's been gang tackled into touch, and gets another set for the Kiwis by somehow keeping a bomb thats going out on the full in field in goal for either a Kiwi to collect and score or an Australian to get caught and give back possession. The worst players by far for the Kiwis IMO were SKD who time and time again gave McInglis room to carve him up on the outside (cost them directly one try) and Adam Blair who I hardly noticed on the field until he threw a ridiculous pass to Bromwich on what would have been tackle 1 to turn the ball over.

A couple of other things I find interesting, the Warriors win 53% when he plays, well up on their average over the same time (considering there's 2009 and 2004 where he played and they were diabolical). It seems a fairly clear correlation to his importance to the team. In his last 45 first grade games he has 35 tries (bearing in mind he's had a few injuries in that period too), that's a pretty phenomenal strike rate for a winger who's supposedly busted that no one wants. He has always had an above average error rate, but then again, so do players like Matt Bowen and a number of others who consistently rank above him at seasons end on error rates, the reason these players do so is because they get involved more so than most in their position and are willing to try things to get a result. Its like comparing Feleti Mateo's error rate with Micheal Luck, they're both backrowers but I know who's trying to create more than the other. The comments that fans wouldn't want him at their club are fanciful, delusional and short sighted at best. He's had an ordinary start to the season but even out of form he handled Uate with consummate ease in the test match and provided enormous go forward for the Kiwis.

Those not wanting at their club are the same ones that would'nt take Gallen, Hayne or Thurston as well..delusional.

 

[Iafeta]

He drops far more times than he scores. Building and maintaining pressure is everything in this game.


Performance of the side when his hands come into play? Yeah, he influences how much defence they have to do significantly. :roll:

Players like Matt Bowen (he's one I recall being mentioned in an article a few years ago having a load more errors than Manu), Preston Campbell... these sorts of blokes who get in and have a go and try and create sometihng from nothing. The thing is, Manu consistently gets involved early in sets to bang the ball up straight through the guts of the forwards (for those suggesting he should be in the pack, most times the forwards are still getting onside when he's ripping it up so you would lose that value), and he gets a fair amount of errors from the cross-field bomb tactic the Warriors employ... which they employ because Manu is so damn good at creating bat-back opportunities for others to score tries.

His error rate is well up this year, the way some are banging on this thread (laughably) is that this is a consistent issue with him. He still has errors in him, but nowhere near the level of 2012. THat said, last 45 games he still has 35 tries, and the games he plays the Warriors have a significantly better win-loss record in. As AlwaysGreen suggests, thats the measure to say he's a winger who causes discussion because he has a major influence on his side. If you want wingers who don't make errors then the Warriors probably should have kept the likes of Aidan Kirk, but lets be honest here, who will have a greater influence on the club's performances?

 

[Iafeta]

Confidence player.
And what's with the comments about him giggling when he makes errors? I've never seen that, I can tell that he actually thinks about it for too long and that's when he becomes crappy.
If he stuffs up it stays in his mind for way too long, he thinks about stuff too much.
Matty Bowen does it as well.
That won't ever change that's how he is, you take the good with the bad....Vatuvei makes some howlers but he's also impossible for bring down quickly and gets his team on the front foot when he doesn't stuff up.

Would I want Vatuvei at the Cows? Yes, but not on the wing.

As far as the Cows go, the bloke who may succeed Manu in the Kiwis and stay ahead of him is Kalifa Fai Fai Loa. I couldn't be more impressed by this bloke. Much like Manu he has an epic workrate and is hard to stop.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I've already posted way too much in this thread but the stats just confirm what I thought, that Manu had a barnstorming game on Friday. Now is a ridiculous time for this thread. If you want vintage Manu you saw it on Friday night- one bad dropped ball, but the hardest running, busiest player on the field.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Also, Manu is by no means in an extended run of bad form- he was outstanding against the Tigers, Storm and Sea Eagles in last year's finals series.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

He drops far more times than he scores.

Rubbish.

Building and maintaining pressure is everything in this game.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Performance of the side when his hands come into play? Yeah, he influences how much defence they have to do significantly. :roll:

You obviously fall into the camp of those who only see the occasional mistake and not the overall positives of Vatuvai's play. If he was as bad as people suggest he would have been dropped never to be seen again a long time ago. You can label him 'one if the worst players in the league' but I would have in my side in a heart beat.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Also, Manu is by no means in an extended run of bad form- he was outstanding against the Tigers, Storm and Sea Eagles in last year's finals series.

Yes, but he dropped the ball once in those games. Therefore he is rubbish. :roll:

 

[Spanner in the works]

Rubbish.
You obviously fall into the camp of those who only see the occasional mistake and not the overall positives of Vatuvai's play. If he was as bad as people suggest he would have been dropped never to be seen again a long time ago. You can label him 'one if the worst players in the league' but I would have in my side in a heart beat.

This is because you enjoy mediocrity.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Also, Manu is by no means in an extended run of bad form- he was outstanding against the Tigers, Storm and Sea Eagles in last year's finals series.

How'd he go against the Broncos........:lol:

That's the Manu that makes him quite LOL worthy at times.

 

[Hooch]

Honestly I'm surprised Manu is still in first grade after all this time.

I'm sure there are many coaches who would've had enough of his terrible hands. Despite his powerful running, he puts his team under immense pressure by not only dropping the ball, but dropping it in high pressure situations. Over and over again.

Top bloke, but I wouldn't want him.

Ashton Sims career at the Broncos was ended by one poor carry, if the Warriors had lost in that semi last year that might've done it for Manu too.

 

[vvvrulz]

Also, Manu is by no means in an extended run of bad form

He's been poor to average this season however and was lucky to be selected based on form. We all expect a few howling games from him but he usually storms back, haven't seen it so far this year and those were costly misses in the Test match.

 

[Masoe_eats_babies]

FTR, from the test match, he had the most metres gained by one player by 25 metres, averaging over 10 per run... 2 errors, one of which is unforced so to speak. I'll cop 2 errors for 173m from 17 runs any day of the week, as would all you blokes.

You can tell these soft merkins are revelling in his drop in form, because for years he's been terrorising opposition teams and embarrassing their "skilled" wingers.

The bloke has a bad run of form and suddenly everyone is saying he's big and shit has always has been? NO.