Team v Bulldogs

[Auckland4ever]

As bad as our halves were in the last game, seemed to me like we were largely dominated in the middle and we made a ton of errors trying to play the same way we played on attack the week before, but without being able to trade off the same amount of forward momentum. It was dumb football and it showed an inability to be able to adjust to a different set of circumstances.

SJ/Lolohea, Robson/Lolohea, Robson/SJ - whoever anybody choses to partner who in the halves is all going to be a bit redundant if a bunch of different players drop the ball 10 times.

 

[jaseg]

As bad as our halves were in the last game, seemed to me like we were largely dominated in the middle and we made a ton of errors trying to play the same way we played on attack the week before, but without being able to trade off the same amount of forward momentum. It was dumb football and it showed an inability to be able to adjust to a different set of circumstances.

SJ/Lolohea, Robson/Lolohea, Robson/SJ - whoever anybody choses to partner who in the halves is all going to be a bit redundant if a bunch of different players drop the ball 10 times.

Pretty much this. We got hammered up the middle against Manly (and had a horrible approach too - gameplan? or lack of reaction to the game as it unfolded?) - which presents a selection headache for me, with Bodene coming back. Moving Mannering back to 13 (like they did) is the easiest way to fit Bodene/Hoff/Mannering all in the team... but I liked seeing genuine middle forwards in the #13. But if you want to play that way with our roster, the issue becomes who can you drop (at least to the bench)? Bodene is (easily) the best on form over the past year and 6 rounds, Hoff is captain and Mannering solves defensive issues wherever you place him.

Totally out of the box and probably batshit crazy thinking; could Mannering do a job for us at right centre? Does he still have enough pace to do so? It's not like Ayshford provides anything in attack anyway.. and could even smooth out having a Konny on the bench for some I guess (I don't have the same issue with that).

I don't like seeing Lolohea in the halves (I think he should stick to wing/fullback and learn to back up the play from those positions) but if he could prove me wrong, and we could get a RTS/Tui/SJ/Luke running spine savaging teams off the back of a dominant forward pack... hmmm..

Better chance of seeing Hingano come in and storm it though. I've seen him three times this year now (went to the North Sydney game as a neutral-ish spectator - former Bears fan) - he's just about ready for first grade. My only potential concern is his defending - and that's because I haven't seen enough of it, rather than any evident lack of quality. He looks like the (actual) perfect foil for a Johnson-style half also.

 

[Cold Roses]

I believe an inexperienced Tui, with a well below par SJ next to him, is not a good fit at the moment.

I guess that this is the biggest reservation that we all have about Tui in the halves.

Having a running Half at 6 isn't necessarily a bad mix. But for it to succeed, Johnson is going to have to become the player that he really wants to be. The next Andrew Johns.

He is going to have to direct play, kick, tackle, run at the line, and most importantly, not drift in and out of games.

Then, we might see Tui come into his own as a half.

The problem of course, is that Johnson, so far, isn't showing any sign of becoming that player.

 

[TheDMC]

As bad as our halves were in the last game, seemed to me like we were largely dominated in the middle and we made a ton of errors trying to play the same way we played on attack the week before, but without being able to trade off the same amount of forward momentum. It was dumb football and it showed an inability to be able to adjust to a different set of circumstances.

SJ/Lolohea, Robson/Lolohea, Robson/SJ - whoever anybody choses to partner who in the halves is all going to be a bit redundant if a bunch of different players drop the ball 10 times.

Yeah last weekend's game was about as bad as it gets for giving your halves a chance. Dropped pill and stifling penalties throughout just made it a mess. Perhaps only Thurston could have cleaned it up effectively. When the going gets tough like that though, Johnson really does disappear into the ether, and that is not a good sign at all. My man-love for Johnson has been pretty seriously eroded the past few years.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I guess that this is the biggest reservation that we all have about Tui in the halves.

Having a running Half at 6 isn't necessarily a bad mix. But for it to succeed, Johnson is going to have to become the player that he really wants to be. The next Andrew Johns.

He is going to have to direct play, kick, tackle, run at the line, and most importantly, not drift in and out of games.

Then, we might see Tui come into his own as a half.

The problem of course, is that Johnson, so far, isn't showing any sign of becoming that player.

The last par nails it. And until we have a good coach, I don't believe he will become that player. If he did, I have absolutely no problem Tui playing alongside him. In fact it would be amazing.

But I also fear Hingaro might be forced to look elsewhere for opportunities, or chooses to look in a haste to play FG. JJ reckons he's close and from what I've seen/heard, exactly the same. Like Te Maire Martin, he is a player. A real traditional, textbook halve who feels completely comfortable there. I'd hate to think it would end up like Martin at the Tigers, where he ends up somewhere else.

 

[ozbash]

I'm happier with Tui in the halves than Robson. I reckon he should stay at 6.

Just wish they'd stop trying to create another " super sub". Didn't work with Motu Tony or Hohaia.

 

[JJ]

But for it to succeed, Johnson is going to have to become the player that he really wants to be. The next Andrew Johns.

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Perhaps that's Johnson's problem - that horse has bolted, and he really isn't a similar player to Johns in any way in my book.

He should just accept that, and perhaps Greg Alexander (the Penrith one, not the shadow we had later) is the model - like Johnson early on he was inconsistent but could do things that few others could - under Gould he developed into a fine half that could control games, not go missing and stand up in the big moments...

 

[Auckland4ever]

Perhaps only Thurston could have cleaned it up effectively.

Maybe, but I kind of doubt it. He'd been in plenty of similar situations with the Cowboys pre-2015 and wasn't often able to single-handedly turn things around.

I think the best sides have a nucleus of players that pick up the slack when others are having a quiet game. With the Cowboys, it's often Granville that swings momentum back their way and they can also usually count on Morgan and Coote to have a big impact on their attack. I could still see them beating plenty of sides, even without Thurston.

I get everybody's frustration with Johnson, but I don't see us being able to build any kind of vaguely similar nucleus without him being involved - even if he deserves dropping moreso than Robson (not IMO, but totally subjective).

 

[Cold Roses]

Perhaps that's Johnson's problem - that horse has bolted, and he really isn't a similar player to Johns in any way in my book.

He should just accept that

I think that there is a very strong chance, that in his mind, he wants to be thought of as a great controlling half in the mould of Andrew Johns. He has spoken before about his hero worship of him growing up.

As you say though, that horse has bolted. He needs to start playing to his strengths and developing his own game. And running the ball to the line more is definitely one of those strengths.

Who knows, maybe being back in the 7 jersey with a running five eighth also in the halves will be the making of him.

I'll be stoked if that's the case. I just have my doubts.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I'm happier with Tui in the halves than Robson. I reckon he should stay at 6.

Just wish they'd stop trying to create another " super sub". Didn't work with Motu Tony or Hohaia.

I think it actually worked quite well with Lance in the end- but I agree re Tui and Robson. Robson was hired to do a job and he's not really doing it- and unlike Johnson he's not really worth persevering with as a risky investment because we know we're never going to get more than a modest return on him.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

If you want to use the Milford analogy

I meant it in the context where people doubted his ability as a half. People are doubting Tuis ability as a half without even seeing him play at this stage in his career.

Milfords just an example, I'm not looking to compare Milford and Tui, no no no. I'm saying people opened their mouths too soon and said 'oh Milford can't play halves he's an outside back' and then Milford proved otherwise. I never ask for you guys to make comparisons, just simply seeking to make an example of when people say you can't do this and then you prove them wrong.

 

[TheDMC]

I meant it in the context where people doubted his ability as a half. People are doubting Tuis ability as a half without even seeing him play at this stage in his career.

Milfords just an example, I'm not looking to compare Milford and Tui, no no no. I'm saying people opened their mouths too soon and said 'oh Milford can't play halves he's an outside back' and then Milford proved otherwise. I never ask for you guys to make comparisons, just simply seeking to make an example of when people say you can't do this and then you prove them wrong.

But Milford is nothing like Tui :crazy:

 

[JJ]

I meant it in the context where people doubted his ability as a half. People are doubting Tuis ability as a half without even seeing him play at this stage in his career.

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You're repressing what happened last season then?

 

[Penrose Warrior]

We have seen Tui in the halves. He was there every week after Shaun was injured last year, was he not? We saw flashes of individual brilliance - his strength - pretty decent D but absolutely no indication that he could organise, put people in space, a kicking game etc.

And you might not be comparing but essentially you are by mentioning the name. People doubted Milford, and he made it because he plays in a side with solid structure, he has a clear responsibility and role under a strong coach, with a good pack in front of him that generally wins or halves contests. He's a highly-talented guy who made it from mercurial to performing every week. We have two of those types of guys playing in the halves on the weekend who in my opinion, will never become the consistent player that Milford has become in our environment. Wasted talent is what we're saying about SJ at this stage (and I blame our coaches more than him, but as I say I'm a fan boy) and I sure hope we don't say it about Tui because he's a real potential star in the right environment.

 

[Matua]

If we're going to go down in flames lets give Tui some game time in the halves rather than paying towards Robson's pension pot.

We're past the point of Tui coming into organise, Robson was brought in to do that and they've looked the least organised in recent memory. So basically we're going down in a heap anyway, so we might as well give Tui some decent game time in the halves.

Hopefully Cappy told Johnson to just go out there and run the game, no other instructions - I want to see him running the ball, and shouting at players - the guy just needs to step up. Clearly he is spending to much time shagging Kayla Cullen (and you can't really fault him for that) and not focusing on the game.

 

[jamaman]

hope Lolohea and Johnson can dance to the same tune!

 

[Blair]

hope Lolohea and Johnson can dance to the same tune!

Hope it's not to 'Who Let The Dogs Out?'

 

[RHYTHM AND STEALTH]

this is cappys last roll of the dice i beleive

 

[jamaman]

this is cappys last roll of the dice i beleive

don't hold your breath!

 

[Penrose Warrior]

If we're going to go down in flames lets give Tui some game time in the halves rather than paying towards Robson's pension pot.

We're past the point of Tui coming into organise, Robson was brought in to do that and they've looked the least organised in recent memory. So basically we're going down in a heap anyway, so we might as well give Tui some decent game time in the halves.

Hopefully Cappy told Johnson to just go out there and run the game, no other instructions - I want to see him running the ball, and shouting at players - the guy just needs to step up. Clearly he is spending to much time shagging Kayla Cullen (and you can't really fault him for that) and not focusing on the game.

I'd agree with that if the season was lost, but it's six games in.

I truly believe we are unorganised because of our structure and the way we are coached. Robson can't do all that on his own, can he? I wouldn't attribute that to him.

But yeah Rhythm is right, it really feels like McFadden's final roll of the dice. If this doesn't work, there's f**k all other places he can go.