The Cleanout list

[ianlovesparra]

Oh; last thing. If people don`t stop this Tim Smith garbage, I`m going to start talking up the chances of Ken Thornett coming back to the club - because it`s just as likely to happen as Smith coming back.
You know, Thornett was a better taker of bombs than Burt; better kick returner than Hayne; tougher than both of them; chimed into the back-line superbly; won Parramatta many games single-handedly; played for Australia. Mmm.... I wonder how much he`d want for a three-year deal?

Na he is to old and past he best, maybe a few years ago

 

[Eelementary]

you know what .... in ALL HONESTY, I reckon we should allow Hindy to decide if HE wishes to leave next year .... I f'n feel for the poor bloke - puts in every f'n game without question and is constantly let down by his teammates ... he deserves better and if he could score a shot at a premiership elsewhere then I would say good luck to him and we should let him have the chance ..... cos there's no way in f'n hell he'll win one in his career at parra - we are so far off competing its not funny

Sadly, I agree.

 

[Eelementary]

You are right. People have such short memories.

He really isn't. In 2005, sure - he set up a try or a repeat set with every kick.

After that, he could still set up tries but his repeat sets diminished dramatically - I remember it well, because I remember thinking to myself, "This kid used to get us a repeat set or a try every time we were in their 20...Why not now?"

And Tim isn't the answer. KK has shown, behind a sh*thouse team and a powderpuff pack of forwards, that he is something special.

 

[Eelementary]

I know Jeff Robson is only here as a stop-gap for this year; and that`s fair enough. I don`t see him as any long or medium solution, either. But can someone please explain why people repeatedy say the he is 'not a first-grader'? I can`t see that he`s done anything wrong at all. In fact I like his effort. He seems to have a common-sense approach, and doesn`t seem over-awed. Could someone please explain?

I don't get it, either, mate.

 

[Eelementary]

Is a halfback ever ready... other than tim smith I have never seen a easy transition from Reserves to First TBH. Prince took year, Thurston took years, Mullen and Pearce are still works in progress, Gower started at hooker... the list goes on.

Simple fact is that we are competing early in the games, but our inability to score (mainly due to shape IMO) is frustrating us. We improve, and start taking our chances then our defence will improve with confidence. At the moment Robsen, Keating are not first grade halfbacks. Keating is dangerous but he is a 5-8 and I'm sure of myself there. Him and Mateo can deal with most of the attacking plays to take the presure off mortimer, while he can talk to the players and organise the team.

Also Mortimore/Keating combination will give us a second dimention in attack and our kicking game IMO. You say his not ready, and I'll say we cant do any worse than what we have atm.

Disagree, on both counts.

Firstly, you're assuming this kid can just waltz in and change things. Remind me - how did the NYC side go against the Broncos? And, as someone else mentioned in another thread, it was a game there for the taking and Mortimer DID NOT step up. Plus our NYC side isn't setting the world on fire.

Secondly, our biggest issue lies in the fact our backs aren't doing things right; dropping balls, running the wrong angles, giving away dumb penalties...Am I to believe that by all of a sudden injecting young Mortimer into the side all this will change?

Lastly, defence is a big problem for us now, too. Mortimer isn't exactly the world's best. All good and well if he can attack - but is it really worth putting in a player who can set up a try but let in one or two through bad defence?

 

[Eelementary]

will he be the next michael ennis/danny buderus?

highly unlikely mate. it's a waste of money coz we didn't need a hooker, why promote anthony mitchell to the top squad in the 1st place?

every dollar under the cap counts atm

Tell me you did not just compare Michael Ennis to Danny Buderus...

And besides, KK is there as a back-up - your back-up player doesn't need to be a superstar.

Go look at an NFL team's roster - are you telling me their second and third string quarterbacks should be as good or better than their first string? Hell no.

 

[cgee221]

Personally I would remove the following:

• Josh Cordoba
• Joe Galuvao (not because he's playing bad, but more so from a business perspective that he's money could attract a better player)
• Weller Hauraki (need I say more?)
• Kevin Kingston (see Galuvao/hasn't had opportunity)
• Todd Lowrie (see Hauraki)
• Brendan Oake (see Hauraki and Lowrie)
• Taulima Tautai (good attacking option but defence a liability. Business persepctive again, takes up space in the cap)

I like Ben Smith as a player but based one recent form and because of injury in the past he's just not producing, however he is contracted here until 2012 and i'd like to see him have a full year of first grade without injury (if that occurs), because then I think we may see him get back to his best.

Re: Tim Smith comments.
There is no doubting that Tim Smith was a good halfback for us, his kicking game produced tries, goal line dropouts and just pressure generally. His passing game as well was very good. I think it's evident that we wouldn't be worse off with him here, in saying that as well it's also in the past.

But I have to agree with Ian, you forget someone when someone bigger or better has come to replace them. But when they haven't you see the value that they have to your side. Because no one bigger or better has replaced Tim Smith, it's hard to forget what he contributed to the side and the difference he made to our team.

And personally I think Sterlo is probably the biggest burden to our team, let alone the whole 1980s team. The media, and us fans will always be comparing the current side to them as they set the benchmark for what is achieving at the Eels. Sterlo in that side was the master and puppeteer, the orchestrator and when ever their looks like there is going to be a good halfback prospect at Parramatta, he will always be labelled the next Sterlo, as what happend with Tim Smith. When this type of pressure starts to get to a young kid, you see the problems that start to arise, compounded with his medical problems (or perhaps the two are inter-related?). Add to the fact that Tim Smith came back way too early last year, and the fans and media all hounded him you can begin to understand how things turned out the way it did.

However Tim Smith is in the past and we should move on from it. However I for one would be happy to have him back on the basis of the guidelines/incentives which were detailed in a post here but I can't seem to find it, something about a Wenty gig and incentives? I think that is a good idea, ease him into first grade if that was a path we were looking at following.

On the whole though, we really should be looking at a seasoned player like Mongahan to fill the void to allow KK to play five-eighth.

 

[Bazal]

Is a halfback ever ready... other than tim smith I have never seen a easy transition from Reserves to First TBH. Prince took year, Thurston took years, Mullen and Pearce are still works in progress, Gower started at hooker... the list goes on.

Simple fact is that we are competing early in the games, but our inability to score (mainly due to shape IMO) is frustrating us. We improve, and start taking our chances then our defence will improve with confidence. At the moment Robsen, Keating are not first grade halfbacks. Keating is dangerous but he is a 5-8 and I'm sure of myself there. Him and Mateo can deal with most of the attacking plays to take the presure off mortimer, while he can talk to the players and organise the team.

Also Mortimore/Keating combination will give us a second dimention in attack and our kicking game IMO. You say his not ready, and I'll say we cant do any worse than what we have atm.

Surely the toughness of the transition is another reason not to throw him to the sharks so early? What do you expect him to do coming into a team with little confidence, erratic shape, no defence whatsoever and a pretty average roster? He's not dominating a decent NYC side, he's clearly not ready, why make things infinitely more difficult by throwing him into a struggling first grade side?

You say KK is a 6....I say Mortimer is still very much a five-eighth, more so than Keating. This is his first year as a full time 7 and he has struggled at times to cope with the role. He is also very small and often targetted heavily in defence, another reason he can struggle in attack and something that will be excacerbated by the big first grade forwards. He is still learning how to be an NYC halfback and you want to throw him into first grade and expect him to solve our woes? It just won't happen...throw him in now and you set him back a season

 

[cgee221]

Surely the toughness of the transition is another reason not to throw him to the sharks so early? What do you expect him to do coming into a team with little confidence, erratic shape, no defence whatsoever and a pretty average roster? He's not dominating a decent NYC side, he's clearly not ready, why make things infinitely more difficult by throwing him into a struggling first grade side?

You say KK is a 6....I say Mortimer is still very much a five-eighth, more so than Keating. This is his first year as a full time 7 and he has struggled at times to cope with the role. He is also very small and often targetted heavily in defence, another reason he can struggle in attack and something that will be excacerbated by the big first grade forwards. He is still learning how to be an NYC halfback and you want to throw him into first grade and expect him to solve our woes? It just won't happen...throw him in now and you set him back a season

Great post.

Mortimer is not the immediate answer. It will damage his confidence and we will not be better for it and neither will Mortimer. It could be a different situation if our forwards were dominating and our defence was great, but even then at this time of the year, regardless of form from the team it wouldn't be the wisest thing to do.

Again this is a Sterlo problem. When Parra is in trouble we immediately think some youngster who is killing it on lower grades or going alright will solve all our problems at the click of our fingers. And what happens? they either fail and don't continue on like they should or they have a bit of success and we tout them the next sterlo and the pressures of th weekly grind of NRL football become too much. Be patient with Mortimer, his time will come but that time is not now.

 

[300]

Dennis 'Nuclear' Fitzgerald

 

[caylo]

Mortimer will never be ready until he plays first grade and makes the transition. Mortimer is more a halfback then Keating simply because Keating is a running 5-8 (in the truest sense) and his game is lost at halfback trying to run a football team. Timmy was actually a 5-8 in jnr years aswell... but performed from round 1. Players may be inclined to listen to mortimer, where he wants them to stand and what angles to run. It isn't the outside backs that are the problem they need to play to what the halfbacks barks at them.
Mortimer played most of last year at halfback with Keating at 5-8, and they have a good understanding. He has improved now to structure his team in the options 20 (where we struggle atm). The longer we keep Mortimer out, the longer it will take for him to be comfortable with NRL level football.
Nest week I would play

Hayne
Etu
Smith
Inu
Reddy
Keating
Mortimer

I wouldn't worry about Mortimer defence, most halfbacks struggle in this department. Thruston, Pearce, Prince, Cronk, Mullen and Sandow... they are all bad defenders. We have guys like Hindy, Benny who should be able to shadow players... Im more worried about burts defence... he was horrible when chasing grubbers lastnight... more urgency please.

 

[lingard]

Lingard Keating has shown class.. alot of it, but he is a 5-8 and not a halfback. Thurston took time become a complete halfback after playing 5-8 his whole life, and Keating will take just as much time. I think keating would be better suited at 5-8, where he can run the ball and use his support play more often rather thanh have to set run the team. Mateo is good for moments of brilance but he is no 5-8 and should be at lock but get more invoved in attak when there.

I agree with everything you just said - Keating 5/8, Mateo lock. But at the moment we don`t have a halfback. So it`s either use Keating at half (where he`s doing a good job at present) or put Robson at half for the rest of the year and switch Keating to 5/8. No-one on here seems to agree with me that Robson is pretty good. I think he`d be a conservative type half-back - steady, mistake-free - who would give good service to Keating, and take on the line when necessary. Be worth a go I reckon.

 

[oldmancraigy]

I agree with everything you just said - Keating 5/8, Mateo lock. But at the moment we don`t have a halfback. So it`s either use Keating at half (where he`s doing a good job at present) or put Robson at half for the rest of the year and switch Keating to 5/8. No-one on here seems to agree with me that Robson is pretty good. I think he`d be a conservative type half-back - steady, mistake-free - who would give good service to Keating, and take on the line when necessary. Be worth a go I reckon.

Sorry - Robson is no good.

Steady, mistake-free but also talent free and unable to do much of anything at all.

Might as well put Mortimer in there and say "just catch and pass" - and even then it'd probably be higher quality than Robson...

Sure he's a nice guy, but not a first grader - thought he was horrid in limited moments against the Broncs.

 

[Jasey]

I don't mind seeing Keating at halfback after watching Finch the last few years. Finch was slow, boring and inconsistent. How many times did Finch kick the ball into the defender chargedown, or throw intercepts? At least keating looks a chance to break them open.
Can't stand Grothe, he's useless. How many players of the Eels do you think the other teams fear? Not, many. Moi Moi, Hindy, Mateo, Hayne(When he can be bothered trying). We need to start winning in the forwards with some hardhitters.

 

[300]

truth be told Grothe was our best back until he got injured...im sure if he was in other team he would of been mentioned for SOO...

 

[Phillips]

Anyone who thinks Grothe is useless is obviously an idiot.

 

[Craig Johnston]

Tell me you did not just compare Michael Ennis to Danny Buderus...

And besides, KK is there as a back-up - your back-up player doesn't need to be a superstar.

Go look at an NFL team's roster - are you telling me their second and third string quarterbacks should be as good or better than their first string? Hell no.

i did nothing of the sort, i simply used 2 defensively sound hookers as examples given that's kingston's game. way to go trying to argue besides the point.

and in nfl isn't the quarterback the equivalent of the league halfback? going by your logic, where's our 2nd and 3rd stringers? shouldn't we put more resources there than at hooker as i originally argued? :lol:

and tell me you did not just compare nrl to nfl? :lol:

 

[salvy71]

Well, we`re getting there, mate. Give Kris Keating a go. Stop looking in the rear-vision mirror, and give Keating some credit.

I like Kris Keating at half back ....he's only played 2 full games at half and looked very dangerous in both .....his biggest weakness is that he's probably not able to bark out orders and run the show ......that'll come with experience .......personally i like having a fast , nippy little halfback and a ball playing 5/8th in Mateo.

 

[Parraren]

At the end of the day, regardless of who our halves are, with our current roster of forwards we are so far off the better sides in the comp it's not even worth debating over halves/backs.

We need a massive overhaul of our forard pack.

There's too much focus on our backs when it's our shoddy pack that is our real problem.

Like many have stated above, start with a list of players you'd keep (not more than 7 or 8 i can think of) and build from there.

 

[Eelementary]

i did nothing of the sort, i simply used 2 defensively sound hookers as examples given that's kingston's game. way to go trying to argue besides the point.

and in nfl isn't the quarterback the equivalent of the league halfback? going by your logic, where's our 2nd and 3rd stringers? shouldn't we put more resources there than at hooker as i originally argued? :lol:

and tell me you did not just compare nrl to nfl? :lol:

Mate, you won't get an argument out of me saying that we haven't screwed up our halves retention.

But a comparison between then NFL and NRL is fair enough - both are technical games and in this instance they have it right. And some teams don't even have a 3rd string QB - the rules only say you need a minimum of 2. So you drop your first string, your second gets injured and you're left without a QB.

I reckon we should do our playing rosters similar to what the NFL does: minimum of 2 halves, 2 5/8s. 4 centres, 4 wingers, 4 props....etc. in the top 25. Because you look at ur top 25 and we have craploads of backs and second-rowers and no props.