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Wes in trouble... again

gunnamatta bay

Referee
Messages
21,084
As Dave pointed out appeals can backfire. I was far from impressed by the excuse for Wez driving his legal representative trotted out. It sounded ludicrous and no doubt a hard nosed judge, judges preside over appeals, may agree and go for a full custodial sentence instead.
 

spider

Coach
Messages
15,841
borat said:
IMO I would be happy if the NRL de-registered him until his sentence is served. To me this is far better than the saints having to sack him becuase he will only be snapped up by the sharks or Raiders saying he deserves a second chance.

i agree - that is only punishing the Dragons, rather than Wes for his wrong doings.

i believe the NRL have to look at the big picture - not 1/16 of it.
 

Godz Illa

Coach
Messages
18,745
I re-iterate my point from the first page. Do not sack him. He'd sign for bigger money for another club and the only losers will be us.
 

Steel Dragon

Bench
Messages
3,411
It would be a big show of faith from the dragons to stick with him and theyd be setting a precendent of not sacking players who break the law.
My concern is what happens when the crime is more (for lack of a better word) criminal (ie rape assault arson violence etc.) Would the Dragons be seen as having double standards also if the player was a lower profile player than Wes (ie theyre willing to stick by their big names - but not the young kids)

There are a lot of issues with this one - and while i love Wes 'the cheese' as a player, especially cos he's at my club - i cant help thinking if he was at Manly or the Roosters i'd be calling for the death penalty.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,353
How far does a punishment go before it starts going beyond the accepted justice? Matter of opinion of course, but I'm wary of witch hunts.
SpiderShark said:
i agree - that is only punishing the Dragons, rather than Wes for his wrong doings.

i believe the NRL have to look at the big picture - not 1/16 of it.
Yep. If the NRL deregister Naiqama, then so be it.

But if Saints simply sack him, he'll only come back to hurt the club, and the supporters, on the football field.

When the judicial process is done, and the man is copping his punishment, in most cases that'd be enough. If he is still willing to do his job (and do it well), then what benefit is there to the employer by setting him up in competition to them?

I suppose the club could negotiate a deal where he was released but not allowed to play for another NRL club, but even that has to have a sunset clause.

Its a curly one. This is one of those occasions where I'm comfortable with others making the decision.
 

Steel Dragon

Bench
Messages
3,411
I guess theres the whole excuse 'bringing the club's name into disrepute' if they really wanted to sack him.

But yeah - there are half a dozen teams that Wes would walk straight into a starting side. Dragons would be dumb to let him go of their own accord...
 

spider

Coach
Messages
15,841
Willow said:
But if Saints simply sack him, he'll only come back to hurt the club, and the supporters, on the football field.
absolutely - i would be yelling at our club to chase his signature.

then what benefit is there to the employer by setting him up in competition to them?
plenty willow, great for the local derby - he would look good in the B,W & B - lol

I suppose the club could negotiate a deal where he was released but not allowed to play for another NRL club, but even that has to have a sunset clause.
not just stopping there - this situation [if it occurred] would only add more clauses, stipulations and headaches to the average player contract in the future.

Its a curly one. This is one of those occasions where I'm comfortable with others making the decision.
if i was in the Dragons CEO's chair - i would let it be.

If it is to be dealt with, let it be the NRL's decision.

Thats only my opinion - but as a fan of NRL, not as a sharks supporter.
 

Collateral

Coach
Messages
13,792
Pumba said:
WHAT!!!! The bloke will never learn maybe this will teach him a hard lesson you can't break the law over and over.

Im sure you would say the exact same thing if it happened to Joey.
 

Pumba

First Grade
Messages
8,542
Yes I would but some people aren't dumb enough to re-offend. I think Wes should be sacked for bringing the game into disrepute IMO!
 

God-King Dean

Immortal
Messages
46,614
Yeah, Wes is a vicious animal ! He drove without a licence, he makes the whole NRL look dispicable.

Grow up Pumba. " ...but some people aren't dumb enough to re-offend ". Johns offended a few times this year, & IMO swearing at an official & snubbing a presentation in his honour makes the game look fair worse.

But of course... I'm sure you didn't think he should have been sacked then.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,353
Geez Pumba, you seemed a lot less judgmental, and lot more forgiving for Dane Tilse.

Why would that be?
 

Dave Q

Coach
Messages
11,065
I dont think Wes brought the game into disrepute at all.

He broke the law ...and then he so happened to be a footballer.

A lot of footballers obey the law.

A lot of non-footballers break the law.

Do non-footballers who break the law, do these people bring non-footballing into disrepute?

The whole game hasnt suffered a loss in reputation due to Wesmond.

And Saints have a vested interest in keeping him playing.

As for the appeal, Ive re-considered it over the day. Its an utter waste of time.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,353
12 and six should do. Just keep a level head for two days a week and he'll a free man in time to watch the grand final. Hopefully he'll be the wiser.

I'd say the appeal is one of those lawyer things. Presumably the notion is to get it downgraded to community service but I suspect it has just as much to do with a lawyer's day in court.

They say the words 'severity of sentence' because that's the actual term used so everyone in earshot doesn't have to be told twice.

I note some wee petals getting unsettled by the jargon, but I haven't had the heart to tell them its just words.
 

Mong

Post Whore
Messages
55,685
Immortal said:
Yeah, Wes is a vicious animal ! He drove without a licence, he makes the whole NRL look dispicable.

Grow up Pumba. " ...but some people aren't dumb enough to re-offend ". Johns offended a few times this year, & IMO swearing at an official & snubbing a presentation in his honour makes the game look fair worse.

But of course... I'm sure you didn't think he should have been sacked then.

NRL issues aside, he is very lucky he didn't go to jail full time for a period of time.. He deserved that punishment, he got lucky and lets hope he finally wakes up and learns from it.
 

Godz Illa

Coach
Messages
18,745
I didn't think I'd ever say this, but... there is a nice article on the News website today. Obviously sourced from The Australian, rather than the Terrorgraph, but still...

news.com.au said:
It's a two-way street, Naiqama

By Margie McDonald
March 02, 2007
ST George-Illawarra legend Johnny Raper said Wes Naiqama deserved to have his club's full support but needed to pay that back during the season.
"I do hope he realises how St George-Illawarra have put themselves out on a limb for him," said Raper, who won eight premierships with the Dragons from 1959 to 1966.
"So he needs to show them even more than he already has on the football field and a lot more off it."
Naiqama is appealing a two-days-a-week periodic detention for his fourth conviction of driving while disqualified.
He can still play for the Dragons at weekends even if his appeal fails, because the periodic detention would be during the week. The Dragons have chosen the talented outside back in the the centres for tomorrow night's annual Charity Shield against South Sydney.
"It's just typical of St George that when you're down, they stick by you. That's why they've won so many premierships," Raper said.
"Let's hope the experience has frightened the life out of Wes.
"He's a wonderful young player and in my dealings with him, he's been very approachable and considerate. I was very surprised when I heard he'd got himself into trouble. But I think he would realise how serious the situation is and will want to repay the club.

"I was a bit of a wild man myself but the Dragons stuck by me and others. You show your appreciation by playing the best you can."
Head of the Rugby League Players Association, Matt Rodwell, applauded the manner in which St George-Illawarra reacted to Naiqama's situation.
"From our point of view, the Dragons are doing everything they can to help Wes get through a difficult period in his life," Rodwell said. "Sure he's made some mistakes and he's facing penalties within the judicial system for those.
"We are supportive of the fact that at this stage the Dragons are keeping him on. And knowing (head coach) Nathan Brown very well and his affinity with his players, he'll be trying to make sure Wes gets through this and gets back on the straight and narrow."
Naiqama's appeal will be heard in the Sydney District Court on May 22.
His lawyers told Waverley Local Court on Wednesday the only reason Naiqama had driven unlicensed on the latest occasion was to get his girlfriend, former Australian Idol contestant Paulini Curuenavuli, to hospital after she became ill.
But magistrate Chris Longley said Naiqama's driving record suggested he was a serial offender.
The NRL said it would not consider Naiqama's position until the end of the court process.
h14_theaustralian.gif

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,21309900-23214,00.html
 

borat

Bench
Messages
3,511
Surely he can't play this year if his appeal is dimissed. If we let Wes play while serving detention where do we draw the line. How many other players will we let serve out jail sentences mid week. And who decides what offence is sackable and what is not. As good a player Wes is and as big a loss it will be to our team, surley he can't be allowed to play until his sentence is served.
 

Pumba

First Grade
Messages
8,542
Immortal said:
Yeah, Wes is a vicious animal ! He drove without a licence, he makes the whole NRL look dispicable.

Grow up Pumba. " ...but some people aren't dumb enough to re-offend ". Johns offended a few times this year, & IMO swearing at an official & snubbing a presentation in his honour makes the game look fair worse.

But of course... I'm sure you didn't think he should have been sacked then.

PFFT thats nothing compared to drink driving and being caught MORE THEN ONCE.

Willow said:
Geez Pumba, you seemed a lot less judgmental, and lot more forgiving for Dane Tilse.

Why would that be?

Point taken willow Dane did something wrong that is alot worse then Wes but he did pay the price he was SACKED imo Wes should be deregistered until his sentence is served.

borat said:
Surely he can't play this year if his appeal is dimissed. If we let Wes play while serving detention where do we draw the line. How many other players will we let serve out jail sentences mid week. And who decides what offence is sackable and what is not. As good a player Wes is and as big a loss it will be to our team, surley he can't be allowed to play until his sentence is served.

Well Said:clap:
 

Dave Q

Coach
Messages
11,065
As far as evidencing the reason for driving, you'd be tendering up hospital notes that should prove that she was admitted to hospital for those things complained of after Wes dropped or took her there (if he did).

Maybe some statements from witnesses who saw her falling ill:

Witness X.

3..I turned around and saw a person whom I know to be Paulini ..... on the floor holding her stomach. Her face was red and she looked to be in considerable pain.

4. I heard Paulini say:

'I feel terrible Wes, I need to get to the hospital quickly, I dont think I can wait for an ambulance."

5. I saw Wes pick her up and place her on her feet.

6. I then heard her say:

" I think I can make it out to the car Wes but I am to ill to drive."

7. I heard Wes say:

" I am not allowed to drive".

8. I heard her cry out in pain, she slipped and she grabbed her stomach.

9. I then saw them leave the premises. Wes was holding her waist gently in case she fell. He has a very worried look on his face and seemed very distressed.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,353
Pumba, If memory serves me correctly, Naiqama has not been caught drink driving more than once as you claim. If you're going to engage in debate, it helps to stick to the facts.

Dane did something wrong that is alot worse then Wes
Sure, and Naiqama is not alone when it comes to players running foul of the law. But with Tilse and other players who have been guilty of certain indiscretions, I note that you remain strangely quiet. In fact, the only comment you had on Tilse was that you were unhappy to see him go when he signed with the Raiders.

So what is it about Wes that makes you so irate?
 
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