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Round 9 vs Tigers - Bathurst

Luke Bowden

First Grade
Messages
7,301
My bet is on Taylan May being shifted to centre. I pray that his rehab is as good as possible. People are sleeping on him, he is basically an Elite winger and I think we would have won last night and also the Bunnies game if we had him. He is a massive step in quality compared to Turuva who is basically a blog average winger.

So even though he has NRL experience on the wing only he has played centre in reserves and has shited there mid game a few times and done well. Better than throwing in a rookie with close to zero NRL experience.

My personal preference would have been Cole though. Big body and has good balance and ball skills - very much a Crichton type of centre.
100% agree. He’s a gun, we are really missing him.
 

Iamback

Referee
Messages
20,283
My bet is on Taylan May being shifted to centre. I pray that his rehab is as good as possible. People are sleeping on him, he is basically an Elite winger and I think we would have won last night and also the Bunnies game if we had him. He is a massive step in quality compared to Turuva who is basically a blog average winger.

So even though he has NRL experience on the wing only he has played centre in reserves and has shited there mid game a few times and done well. Better than throwing in a rookie with close to zero NRL experience.

My personal preference would have been Cole though. Big body and has good balance and ball skills - very much a Crichton type of centre.

I'd have Cole on the bench in my 17. Needs to get a taste but not sure he is ready for 80 mins. The extra ball player won't hurt
 

Iamback

Referee
Messages
20,283
He was creating penalties for the other team and slow in cover defense. I am a fan of his and loved his first stint with us, but he isn't close to that player anymore. I honestly don't want to see him playing centre again unless we have another 1 or 2 injuries there. I'd much prefer Jenkins or Cole.

I never said he should start but offers something off the bench

Shawn Blore was binned twice and still NSW Cup couldn't make a dent in a very average team.

So that is the problem depth is dud across the board
 

Iamback

Referee
Messages
20,283
You take them out along with May, Api and Kikau and that's 6 of your starting 13 and best bench player from the grand final. OK well Staines did play not May but he isnin your best 13.

What does one expect to happen? This just isn't the same side. At full strength and that means not one injury Penrith can take out the crown. You take out 1 of your above average players and then I don't think are good enough anymore.

Tigers aren't bad. They should of beat the Dogs and Parra as where the better side. Only just lost to the Knights and Manly.
A bit of luck and they are 5 wins right now and sitting pretty.
Its a close comp. A few injuries and a bit off your game and the bottom sides will beat you. They've all improved.

It was a representative backline ( Peachey aside)

Rep halves

pack was missing a few but still Leota, Sorensen and Yeo are test players

Crichton doesn't get his hands on it enough

Turuva finally gets ball and bombs it.

The roster should of been good enough, tactics and team selection was poor. No excuses really
 

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,880
Yep. It’s not working and we keep going straight to these sideways plays. I was pretty gobsmacked last night watching us go right with these tip on plays from Dylan to critta/biz. It didn’t work one time. I don’t know if the tip on was a result of the defence seeing it coming and pressuring them or it was just the plan but either way it was dumb. All last night needed was simple direct footy not expansive and risky play. Down on troops and not in good form and they are throwing it around in the soaking wet trying to go around the defence, mind boggling stuff to me.

I am going to go against the grain here a little and play the Devil's advocate for the team. Whilst it looked like dumb play, did going at/through the Tigers middle look any better a possibility? The players could see (and FEEL!) that they were getting belted and over matched in the middle.

So I guess the thinking was - well our outside backs are far better quality and experienced than theirs so we will get them there. Unfortunately, they just choose the wrong plays/failed to execute.
 

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,880
I'd have Cole on the bench in my 17. Needs to get a taste but not sure he is ready for 80 mins. The extra ball player won't hurt

He is a far better prospect than Salmon. Salmon puts in but he just lacks physical ability. If we were prioritising our mid-long term prospects, he'd already be getting game time. I think that is Ivans plan though, it's not like we were dying to resign Salmon and offered him a bunch of years. We gave him a cheapie short term contract because we know there is better just around the corner.
 

Iamback

Referee
Messages
20,283
He is a far better prospect than Salmon. Salmon puts in but he just lacks physical ability. If we were prioritising our mid-long term prospects, he'd already be getting game time. I think that is Ivans plan though, it's not like we were dying to resign Salmon and offered him a bunch of years. We gave him a cheapie short term contract because we know there is better just around the corner.

We have him for 3 years, So at some time need to use him. That is normally the way Ivan does it
 

Iamback

Referee
Messages
20,283
I am going to go against the grain here a little and play the Devil's advocate for the team. Whilst it looked like dumb play, did going at/through the Tigers middle look any better a possibility? The players could see (and FEEL!) that they were getting belted and over matched in the middle.

So I guess the thinking was - well our outside backs are far better quality and experienced than theirs so we will get them there. Unfortunately, they just choose the wrong plays/failed to execute.

The issue is on a wet night you will go into touch. Certainly can't just go for the corner like a normal game
 

martielang

Bench
Messages
3,498
We just need variety. Our options when going to an edge are so predictable.

Hoskings is our best hole runner and he may as well wear a suit in attack, Cleary uses him as a decoy 95% of the time. Everything is so premeditated and pedestrian. Garner also needs to be on the other edge straightening our attack on the left. Let him get a run in his position rather than makeshift options which weaken other areas.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
I am going to go against the grain here a little and play the Devil's advocate for the team. Whilst it looked like dumb play, did going at/through the Tigers middle look any better a possibility? The players could see (and FEEL!) that they were getting belted and over matched in the middle.

So I guess the thinking was - well our outside backs are far better quality and experienced than theirs so we will get them there. Unfortunately, they just choose the wrong plays/failed to execute.

Maybe you are right but to me if you're getting belted in the middle going wide in a good attacking position off the back of a slow play the ball in the wet just isnt smart. At the very least get deeper and get the ball into the hands of Dylan and crichton before the defense is right on them so they have a chance to run and beat a tackle in the wet conditions rather then then getting it as the defense is hitting them so they basically have to tip it on. It is just not playing to the conditions.

To be clear I am not talking about the early spreads we use in our half to make metres. I dont mind those plays even in those conditions they worked well for us. I just didnt like the high risk plays as soon as we got 15-20m metres out.
 
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Red&BlackBear

First Grade
Messages
5,425
I think most of you fans need to chill for a minute and take that minute to reflect on the side at the moment properly - 4 losses (5 with WCC) for a combined 9 points. That in itself is signs for positivity, yes they still lost and yes they didn’t get points which is what matters but what also matters is how they lost.

Panthers were in every game - even the 2 bad performances vs Knights (win) and Tigers (loss).

Penrith have been losing moments that’s the issue and you can fix that up real quick. Literally look at the losses and its concentration lapses in moments that lead to those loses.

As long as they keep this defensive effort up they’ll win more games then they lose and they’ll make the 8 easy and will be there abouts in the 4. History shows the best defensive team usually wins it all, so take that into consideration. Storm were never a team to blow sides out the park, they grinded their way to many victories at their peak. So take solace in that fact.

All the attacking stuff is minor tweaking. How many bombed tries have Panthers done this season? Which if you calculate even if they score one of those each game they win.

The evolution of the 2023 Penrith Panthers needs to somewhat copy the Sharks of last decade - grinding side who bring others teams down to their level and make you earn anything in any moment during games. They shouldn’t try to be a team that puts 30 points a game on opposition because they simply aren’t.

On injuries every side has them but whilst it sucks it gives blokes a chance to rest their bodies more after a gruelling 3 seasons (Panthers players have literally played most accumulative footy last 3 seasons than any other group of players). As long as they’re close to full strength by August and they’ve got enough wins/points on the board. Watch out rest of comp.

Like I said earlier in this thread, aim for high completion rate at 85% each game - aim to win the initial contact in every tackle and hit up - simplify the overall game plan. If they do this, with their current defensive efforts they’ll come close to winning it all again.

Trust me, nrl fans are some of the biggest dumbos out there but the actual players and management of other clubs won’t want to play Panthers in a finals game regardless where Panthers are on the ladder in the 8.
 
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Chins get the wins

First Grade
Messages
8,266
I think most of you fans need to chill for a minute and take that minute to reflect on the side at the moment properly - 4 losses (5 with WCC) for a combined 9 points. That in itself is signs for positivity, yes they still lost and yes they didn’t get points which is what matters but what also matters is how they lost.

Panthers were in every game - even the 2 bad performances vs Knights (win) and Tigers (loss).

Penrith have been losing moments that’s the issue and you can fix that up real quick. Literally look at the losses and its concentration lapses in moments that lead to those loses.

As long as they keep this defensive effort up they’ll win more games then they lose and they’ll make the 8 easy and will be there abouts in the 4. History shows the best defensive team usually wins it all, so take that into consideration. Storm were never a team to blow sides out the park, they grinded their way to many victories at their peak. So take solace in that fact.

All the attacking stuff is minor tweaking. How many bombed tries have Panthers done this season? Which if you calculate even if they score one of those each game they win.

The evolution of the 2023 Penrith Panthers needs to somewhat copy the Sharks of last decade - grinding side who bring others teams down to their level and make you earn anything in any moment during games. They shouldn’t try to be a team that puts 30 points a game on opposition because they simply aren’t.

On injuries every side has them but whilst it sucks it gives blokes a chance to rest their bodies more after a gruelling 3 seasons (Panthers players have literally played most accumulative footy last 3 seasons than any other group of players). As long as they’re close to full strength by August and they’ve got enough wins/points on the board. Watch out rest of comp.

Like I said earlier in this thread, aim for high completion rate at 85% each game - aim to win the initial contact in every tackle and hit up - simplify the overall game plan. If they do this, with their current defensive efforts they’ll come close to winning it all again.

Trust me, nrl fans are some of the biggest dumbos out there but the actual players and management of other clubs won’t want to play Panthers in a finals game regardless where Panthers are on the ladder in the 8.
IF we make the 8
 
Messages
2,930
NSW Cup are travelling worse then NRL are. Cole is probably capable of replacing Crichton next year but is another year from playing 6

Katoa
Keegan-Smith
Puru

Were the halves in Flegg/Ball last year. All have gone.

We need to stop looking within and go to the market. No senior guys are around but can get a 2nd tier young guy and develop them
QLD cup and NZ, hopefully we see some progress. Also when Gus was here he mentioned it's about having the right guys in the right area of business. Let's hope we still have the same recruiters in place.
 

BxTom

Bench
Messages
2,674
I think most of you fans need to chill for a minute and take that minute to reflect on the side at the moment properly - 4 losses (5 with WCC) for a combined 9 points. That in itself is signs for positivity, yes they still lost and yes they didn’t get points which is what matters but what also matters is how they lost.

Panthers were in every game - even the 2 bad performances vs Knights (win) and Tigers (loss).

Penrith have been losing moments that’s the issue and you can fix that up real quick. Literally look at the losses and its concentration lapses in moments that lead to those loses.

As long as they keep this defensive effort up they’ll win more games then they lose and they’ll make the 8 easy and will be there abouts in the 4. History shows the best defensive team usually wins it all, so take that into consideration. Storm were never a team to blow sides out the park, they grinded their way to many victories at their peak. So take solace in that fact.

All the attacking stuff is minor tweaking. How many bombed tries have Panthers done this season? Which if you calculate even if they score one of those each game they win.

The evolution of the 2023 Penrith Panthers needs to somewhat copy the Sharks of last decade - grinding side who bring others teams down to their level and make you earn anything in any moment during games. They shouldn’t try to be a team that puts 30 points a game on opposition because they simply aren’t.

On injuries every side has them but whilst it sucks it gives blokes a chance to rest their bodies more after a gruelling 3 seasons (Panthers players have literally played most accumulative footy last 3 seasons than any other group of players). As long as they’re close to full strength by August and they’ve got enough wins/points on the board. Watch out rest of comp.

Like I said earlier in this thread, aim for high completion rate at 85% each game - aim to win the initial contact in every tackle and hit up - simplify the overall game plan. If they do this, with their current defensive efforts they’ll come close to winning it all again.

Trust me, nrl fans are some of the biggest dumbos out there but the actual players and management of other clubs won’t want to play Panthers in a finals game regardless where Panthers are on the ladder in the 8.
Good sensible post. Yes, our form is concerning. As you say, there are some contributing factors. I think that there are some with unrealistic expectations. Yes, it would be nice to have retained Kikau, Api, Lenui etc, but the reality is that our success has meant two things;
1. The value of our players has skyrocketed
2. These players now have premierships, so the allure of playing for a premiership is no longer an attraction for them

Combined with this is that fact that for Kikau and Api, it is likely their last contracts and they were looking for a payday to finish their careers - good luck to them.

Learn to take the good with the bad. I have followed my team since 1966 (yes, 1966) and seen some lean times, but still folllowed them regardless.

I guess that we will have the usual suspects say that I settle for indifference and that we don't allow for debate. So be it, but remember that the term "common sense" is probably the greatest oxymoron of all time.
 

Luke Bowden

First Grade
Messages
7,301
Might really struggle during Origin imo. We are in trouble
How so?

If we want to be considered such a great club, we need to win when the odds are against us.

Stop bloody panicking, we will finish in the top four and we will be in the mix at the end of the year.

There was no way we were going to continue winning every game a cruising into the finals. That’s not sustainable.

You need to stop analysing every game and look at the big picture. It’s a Marathon not a sprint, we are just going through a slow patch.
 
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